If Magic acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT, it's something he's come to accept. I could be wrong, but I believe there was a time he didn't acknowledge that.

Even if we can't accept Jordan as the GOAT, the Pistons run was over the Bulls had the next run. Isiah should just leave it at that. Those Pistons teams were amazing. He acts like no one acknowledges that...I think most do. It's kind of sad.

I'll even go on and say Jordan is probably a bigger asshole than Isiah....none of that matters.

That was probably the start of his downfall image wise more than anything.

Well that and the fact that he bankrupted two teams and then an entire league.

I don't know if Magic and Bird consider him the greatest. Most guys are diplomatic. Isiah and Jordan are exceptions. That's probably why we're talking about them.

And I would say it's guys that are under 40 who consider Jordan "the GOAT" and will accept no questioning of it. Guys that played with and against Dr. J., Kareem, Magic, Bird, etc. don't worship Michael Jordan the way Kobe did.

I don't argue that Jordan is the consensus pick as "the greatest" whatever that means and for whatever it's worth. But you also have to accept that there are guys partcipating in creating that consensus that don't even know who Connie Hawkins or Elgin Baylor or Oscar Robertson are.

I think Isiah is definitely bitter for not being considered in that 80's Mt Rushmore of guys Bird, Magic, Jordan, when it is obvious that he should be. The league never marketed him as a player as much as they marketed the Bad Boys team and promoted the team's image as tough guys.

Another thing which hurt him was when he made the bigoted comment about Larry Bird in the 86-87 playoffs . He was sort of sticking up for Rodman (who was a rookie) more than anything but it still was a bogus thing to say. That was probably the start of his downfall image wise more than anything.

Nah your timeline and facts are off on this. Shocking. Has a lot of "Score inspired narrative" to it as well.

He was a great player, one of the greatest of all time and definitely one of the top guys of the 80s. But his memory is definitely skewed. He says that the league really took off when the Pistons came on the scene. That is just not true. Whether he likes it or not, Magic/Lakers and Bird/Celtics are the ones that brought the league back. The Pistons had their part and they definitely get overshadowed. But they are at best the 3rd most important group from that time frame. The Laker/Celtic rivalry and the Jordan Bulls are ahead of them.

It's hyperbole. He did fuck up two teams and actually bankrupted the CBA. Not sure what "timeline" you're talking about. I don't remember the dates this shit occurred.

He was a great player, one of the greatest of all time and definitely one of the top guys of the 80s. But his memory is definitely skewed. He says that the league really took off when the Pistons came on the scene. That is just not true. Whether he likes it or not, Magic/Lakers and Bird/Celtics are the ones that brought the league back. The Pistons had their part and they definitely get overshadowed. But they are at best the 3rd most important group from that time frame. The Laker/Celtic rivalry and the Jordan Bulls are ahead of them.

Basketball is probably one who those sports where the GOAT is a generational thing. Jordan pushed it to about a generation and a half. Now LeBron is taking over with the under 30 crowd. Luka looks like he has next.

I don't remember him saying that but what I do remember him stating is that the highest rated games of the 80's all involved the Detroit Pistons. Might be true. He also stated correctly that the Silverdome was the only one of all the stadiums in the league to get 50,000 fans in it on any given game day.

It was right before he mentioned the highest rated games. He said the league really took off with the Pistons.

Sure they got 50,000 fans because their place holded more than others. That dont really prove anything. The 84-86 Lakers and Celtics would have sold out any place you wanted if they played there.

Larry Bird is the only all time great who didn't suck as a coach and front office guy.

I edited my earlier comment to include this. Playoff games were still being played on tape delay even as the Magic/Bird show was being played out. Its hard to say that the league "took off" with this being the case. And it does "prove" something. It proves that the Pistons were viable enough to place 50,000 people in the seats. We can speculate all we want about what the others might or would do, but they were the only ones that did it.

He was a great player, one of the greatest of all time and definitely one of the top guys of the 80s. But his memory is definitely skewed. He says that the league really took off when the Pistons came on the scene. That is just not true. Whether he likes it or not, Magic/Lakers and Bird/Celtics are the ones that brought the league back. The Pistons had their part and they definitely get overshadowed. But they are at best the 3rd most important group from that time frame. The Laker/Celtic rivalry and the Jordan Bulls are ahead of them.

The eighties were a weird era. Boston was routinely playing games in Hartford and Atlanta played a few games in New Orleans.

But I laughed at his claim that the Pistons played in the highest rated games. Boston/LA were the big games with Philly getting the attention before Jordan arrived. He can't accept that Detroit played boring basketball that many didn't want to watch.

The eighties were a weird era. Boston was routinely playing games in Hartford and Atlanta played a few games in New Orleans.

But I laughed at his claim that the Pistons played in the highest rated games. Boston/LA were the big games with Philly getting the attention before Jordan arrived. He can't accept that Detroit played boring basketball that many didn't want to watch.

They were the highest rated games because of what came before them. They were the highest because of Magic, Larry, Jordan. Not because of Isiah and the bad boys.

This seems like more speculation. And revisionist history.

This seems like more speculation. And revisionist history.

Magic and Bird have both given Jordan the crown. Magic is more outspoken in his love of all things Jordan.

When I look back at the numbers, I never understand why Wilt didn't get more love. They don't make men who have the endurance and durability he had. He has to be arguably the greatest athlete ever.

Basketball is probably one who those sports where the GOAT is a generational thing. Jordan pushed it to about a generation and a half. Now LeBron is taking over with the under 30 crowd. Luka looks like he has next.

It’s not revisionist, it’s clearly true. And if ratings are the key to determining popularity then the Knicks/Bulls rivalry was the peak.

Not really.

The NBA went from tape delay to huge ratings. What connected and started those two times?

Showtime. LA/Boston. Magic/Bird. It is not that hard.

Guys in the NBA under 30 think Kobe is GOAT. I've heard "Kobe is the GOAT of our era," or something like it, often from these players.

Seemingly it is. If he is claming that the ratings were HIGHER for his Bad Boys than the Showtime Lakers and Celtics, then what is UNTRUE about the claim? Just Asking A Question.

And if "WE" are going to go by guys that helped GROW THE LEAGUE in the early 80's then neither Magic or Bird would be THE DUDE. By far the most popular basketball player in the early 80's was Doctor J. And it wasn't EVEN CLOSE.

If I had to win a game or maybe a best of three tournament I think I'd build the team around Shaq instead of Jordan. Might go as follows:

C: Shaq (centerpiece)
PF: Dirk (shooter/can give Shaq space to operate)
SF: Pippen (mainly for lockdown defense)
SG: Ray Allen (shooter)
PG: LeBron (distributor and wing defender)

I'd take that team against a Jordan-led team.