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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:32 pm 
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I don't know if you can't read? But discrimination isn't just about race...


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'm not saying it's the reason to leave Chicago, but those who defend Chicago try to then paint the Southern and Western cities that people leave for as hotbeds for racism and discrimination when their own city is best case, no better for racial relations than these growing southern cities, and quite possibly even worse than them in those regards. You can see why I think it's a bullshit argument to stain these growing southern metropolises as being racist.

That is why I bring it up. Chicagoans act like their city is one of racial harmony because they didn't have slaves 160 years ago. Guess what, most of the people populating these growing southern cities came from Northern cities so I'm guessing they aren't wannabe confederates either.
The problem is you are using one statistic, that varies based on the study methodology significantly, to make a complete comparison. The South has a well deserved reputation for how minorities are treated. A study that says that Milwaukee, Chicago, and New York are more segregated than the large cities in the South doesn't change that. You seem to be pulling back now though which is good. Racism is a problem in every single place in America now. It is worse in some places. I'll be fairly content in saying that in general though racism is more of an issue in your average Southern area than it is in Chicago regardless of the segregation study which more often than not is a reflection of income inequality rather than some inherent racism. That's why NYC ranks so highly on those lists too even though clearly in terms of inclusion and diversity it is better than just about anywhere.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'm not saying it's the reason to leave Chicago, but those who defend Chicago try to then paint the Southern and Western cities that people leave for as hotbeds for racism and discrimination when their own city is best case, no better for racial relations than these growing southern cities, and quite possibly even worse than them in those regards. You can see why I think it's a bullshit argument to stain these growing southern metropolises as being racist.

That is why I bring it up. Chicagoans act like their city is one of racial harmony because they didn't have slaves 160 years ago. Guess what, most of the people populating these growing southern cities came from Northern cities so I'm guessing they aren't wannabe confederates either.
The problem is you are using one statistic, that varies based on the study methodology significantly, to make a complete comparison. The South has a well deserved reputation for how minorities are treated. A study that says that Milwaukee, Chicago, and New York are more segregated than the large cities in the South doesn't change that. You seem to be pulling back now though which is good. Racism is a problem in every single place in America now. It is worse in some places. I'll be fairly content in saying that in general though racism is more of an issue in your average Southern area than it is in Chicago regardless of the segregation study which more often than not is a reflection of income inequality rather than some inherent racism. That's why NYC ranks so highly on those lists too even though clearly in terms of inclusion and diversity it is better than just about anywhere.

Brick have you ever lived in the south?

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
I don't know if you can't read? But discrimination isn't just about race...

If you're talking about people living where they can afford, that's not discrimination, that's economics.

Real Estate value are set by supply vs demand (with location being the primary driver in the demand factor) so naturally rich people will live in neighborhoods they can afford and poor people will live where they can afford. Perhaps Chicago real estate prices will fall as people leave.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nothing worse than a former Chicagoan living in utopia--and coming back to tell you nothing you don't already know.

Utopia = Omaha?


Not that Omaha needs me defending it, but visiting there, I was surprised at how nice Omaha actually was. My preconception of it being a flat Salt Lake City was way off.

They have the 2nd best zoo in the country, College World Series, the Missouri River, and a nice downtown. Douchebag should take a trip there.

Not sure if you mean the guy from the bored or the guy in the White House.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Brick have you ever lived in the south?
No.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Chicagoans act like their city is one of racial harmony


No Chicagoan ever thought this.

Sure, they might think that the South is the racist part of the US and all that bullshit, but....no Chicagoan ever thought this. Maybe one did one time, but God probably killed him (or her) for being too stupid to live.



I'm not saying you don't make a lot of sense. Wait--I'm saying that otherwise, you do make a lot of sense. I'm attracted to you.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'm not saying it's the reason to leave Chicago, but those who defend Chicago try to then paint the Southern and Western cities that people leave for as hotbeds for racism and discrimination when their own city is best case, no better for racial relations than these growing southern cities, and quite possibly even worse than them in those regards. You can see why I think it's a bullshit argument to stain these growing southern metropolises as being racist.

That is why I bring it up. Chicagoans act like their city is one of racial harmony because they didn't have slaves 160 years ago. Guess what, most of the people populating these growing southern cities came from Northern cities so I'm guessing they aren't wannabe confederates either.
The problem is you are using one statistic, that varies based on the study methodology significantly, to make a complete comparison. The South has a well deserved reputation for how minorities are treated. A study that says that Milwaukee, Chicago, and New York are more segregated than the large cities in the South doesn't change that. You seem to be pulling back now though which is good. Racism is a problem in every single place in America now. It is worse in some places. I'll be fairly content in saying that in general though racism is more of an issue in your average Southern area than it is in Chicago regardless of the segregation study which more often than not is a reflection of income inequality rather than some inherent racism. That's why NYC ranks so highly on those lists too even though clearly in terms of inclusion and diversity it is better than just about anywhere.

yeah, they tend to measure segregation (dissimilarity) group by group (so a black-white or a latino-white or a dago-normal white people number....)

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Brick have you ever lived in the south?
No.

You went to Purdue, go an hour down to Indy and that city is culturally part of the South. They even have Waffle House.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:42 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
The original plan was to move out of state once the kids are in college.

That might change.

Fuck Illinois.


Same. Only three years away now from college. We've started scoping out land to build our "retirement home".

And Schaumburg is actually shrinking (really stagnating. They lost about 1,000 residents between 2000 and 2010.

http://www.ci.schaumburg.il.us/about/demographics.htm


If you are thinking down here you better get to it,running out of land and old places to tear down to build new stuff. Fucking rent is outrageous in Tampa itself, over on this side of the bay it is not that bad yet


I am not moving South. We enjoy the four seasons and love the midwest. In no way I am cheering for Illinois to fail. We'd like to live in a more rural setting near water and also in a place with a more permanent winter snow pack (for snowmobiling).

Illinois has massive governance issues. At some point the hammer is going to fall. We're up to $14B behind on our bills, well over $100B in upside down pensions, the 2nd highest property taxes (behind NJ), the highest sales tax rate, a $6B annual budget deficit, and $35B in debt outstanding. It's such an unsustainable situation. For as high as taxes are, it is incredible that we are in such a deep hole. It's not a sole reason to move away, but it is a good reason to not invest more money in the state via a retirement home. The stagnation of property prices and population are early warning signs of what looks to be a longer term, slow decline.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
I don't know if you can't read? But discrimination isn't just about race...

If you're talking about people living where they can afford, that's not discrimination, that's economics.

Real Estate value are set by supply vs demand (with location being the primary driver in the demand factor) so naturally rich people will live in neighborhoods they can afford and poor people will live where they can afford. Perhaps Chicago real estate prices will fall as people leave.

No, I am referring to "religious freedom" dictating when I'm allowed to buy beer or acting like the world will end if two gay dudes get married.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:46 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
The original plan was to move out of state once the kids are in college.

That might change.

Fuck Illinois.


Same. Only three years away now from college. We've started scoping out land to build our "retirement home".

And Schaumburg is actually shrinking (really stagnating. They lost about 1,000 residents between 2000 and 2010.

http://www.ci.schaumburg.il.us/about/demographics.htm


If you are thinking down here you better get to it,running out of land and old places to tear down to build new stuff. Fucking rent is outrageous in Tampa itself, over on this side of the bay it is not that bad yet


I am not moving South. We enjoy the four seasons and love the midwest. In no way I am cheering for Illinois to fail. We'd like to live in a more rural setting near water and also in a place with a more permanent winter snow pack (for snowmobiling).

Illinois has massive governance issues. At some point the hammer is going to fall. We're up to $14B behind on our bills, well over $100B in upside down pensions, the 2nd highest property taxes (behind NJ), the highest sales tax rate, a $6B annual budget deficit, and $35B in debt outstanding. It's such an unsustainable situation. For as high as taxes are, it is incredible that we are in such a deep hole. It's not a sole reason to move away, but it is a good reason to not invest more money in the state via a retirement home. The stagnation of property prices and population are early warning signs of what looks to be a longer term, slow decline.

Sounds like you want to move to Minnesota.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
I don't know if you can't read? But discrimination isn't just about race...

If you're talking about people living where they can afford, that's not discrimination, that's economics.

Real Estate value are set by supply vs demand (with location being the primary driver in the demand factor) so naturally rich people will live in neighborhoods they can afford and poor people will live where they can afford. Perhaps Chicago real estate prices will fall as people leave.

No, I am referring to "religious freedom" dictating when I'm allowed to buy beer or acting like the world will end if two gay dudes get married.

You don't have to leave IL to find those two issues KW.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'm not saying it's the reason to leave Chicago, but those who defend Chicago try to then paint the Southern and Western cities that people leave for as hotbeds for racism and discrimination when their own city is best case, no better for racial relations than these growing southern cities, and quite possibly even worse than them in those regards. You can see why I think it's a bullshit argument to stain these growing southern metropolises as being racist.

That is why I bring it up. Chicagoans act like their city is one of racial harmony because they didn't have slaves 160 years ago. Guess what, most of the people populating these growing southern cities came from Northern cities so I'm guessing they aren't wannabe confederates either.
The problem is you are using one statistic, that varies based on the study methodology significantly, to make a complete comparison. The South has a well deserved reputation for how minorities are treated. A study that says that Milwaukee, Chicago, and New York are more segregated than the large cities in the South doesn't change that. You seem to be pulling back now though which is good. Racism is a problem in every single place in America now. It is worse in some places. I'll be fairly content in saying that in general though racism is more of an issue in your average Southern area than it is in Chicago regardless of the segregation study which more often than not is a reflection of income inequality rather than some inherent racism. That's why NYC ranks so highly on those lists too even though clearly in terms of inclusion and diversity it is better than just about anywhere.
I think we're talking past each other a bit here. I can agree the studies aren't perfect. I guess I'm making the point that the problems the South has in regards to race (and yes there are problems there) are not endemic to that region alone. It seems are are in agreement on that point.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
I don't know if you can't read? But discrimination isn't just about race...

If you're talking about people living where they can afford, that's not discrimination, that's economics.

Real Estate value are set by supply vs demand (with location being the primary driver in the demand factor) so naturally rich people will live in neighborhoods they can afford and poor people will live where they can afford. Perhaps Chicago real estate prices will fall as people leave.

No, I am referring to "religious freedom" dictating when I'm allowed to buy beer or acting like the world will end if two gay dudes get married.

I can't say I'm fond of the religious right either. However, as northerners fleeing places like Illinois come to these southern cities, the attitudes they bring with them on these matters have had an impact.

My parents moved to the South a decade ago. When they moved, their county was dry, but a few years afterwards they had a referendum where an overwhelming majority of the population threw those laws out the window. That's an anecdote, but representative a common trend throughout the South. Especially in the areas with growing populations from transplants.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Sounds like you want to move to Minnesota.


Yes, I posted earlier that WI, MI, and MN are in the discussion. We're going to look at property in Wisconsin first since it's the easiest to scout. We need to balance the distance from here because our entire (and very large) family still lives in the Chicago suburbs.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:53 pm 
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the plan is to go bankrupt and have the rest of you chumps bail us out. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
the plan is to go bankrupt and have the rest of you chumps bail us out. :lol:

You joke, but that seems to be the only way Illinois gets fixed, and Madigan knows it. Either that or he keeps the charade going and the fiscal time bomb goes off after he's dead.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
the plan is to go bankrupt and have the rest of you chumps bail us out. :lol:

You joke, but that seems to be the only way Illinois gets fixed, and Madigan knows it. Either that or he keeps the charade going and the fiscal time bomb goes off after he's dead.

the next new piece of information Ogie provides in this thread will be the first

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Trump really wants to drain the swamp and burn it to the ground. Assign a special investigation/prosecutor on the looting of the Social Security System by Congress and by extension the looting of the pension funds in all levels in Illinois. See a lot of people going to jail,especially the two Madigains. I mean honestly if they had done this in the real business would would they have not been brought up on either charges like Madoff or Enron?

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:05 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Trump really wants to drain the swamp and burn it to the ground. Assign a special investigation/prosecutor on the looting of the Social Security System by Congress and by extension the looting of the pension funds in all levels in Illinois. See a lot of people going to jail,especially the two Madigains. I mean honestly if they had done this in the real business would would they have not been brought up on either charges like Madoff or Enron?


The Illinois pension weren't. The required contributions weren't made or were funded by issuing debt. There are a few problems with double dipping and bad practices of allowing workers to load up overtime and vacation days in their final year to earn an out sized pension (i.e. higher than their final salary), but those were allowable in the rules.

Social security is another matter. It is nearly a paygo system. Any private pension would have been declared insolvent if it followed Social Security's rules. Private pensions start triggering warnings at 80% funded ratio. Social Security may be about 5% funded and with treasury bonds to boot.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:08 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Trump really wants to drain the swamp and burn it to the ground. Assign a special investigation/prosecutor on the looting of the Social Security System by Congress and by extension the looting of the pension funds in all levels in Illinois. See a lot of people going to jail,especially the two Madigains. I mean honestly if they had done this in the real business would would they have not been brought up on either charges like Madoff or Enron?


The Illinois pension weren't. The required contributions weren't made or were funded by issuing debt. There are a few problems with double dipping and bad practices of allowing workers to load up overtime and vacation days in their final year to earn an out sized pension (i.e. higher than their final salary), but those were allowable in the rules.

Social security is another matter. It is nearly a paygo system. Any private pension would have been declared insolvent if it followed Social Security's rules. Private pensions start triggering warnings at 80% funded ratio. Social Security may be about 5% funded and with treasury bonds to boot.


The CPS pensions where borrowed from.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
The original plan was to move out of state once the kids are in college.

That might change.

Fuck Illinois.


Same. Only three years away now from college. We've started scoping out land to build our "retirement home".

And Schaumburg is actually shrinking (really stagnating. They lost about 1,000 residents between 2000 and 2010.

http://www.ci.schaumburg.il.us/about/demographics.htm


If you are thinking down here you better get to it,running out of land and old places to tear down to build new stuff. Fucking rent is outrageous in Tampa itself, over on this side of the bay it is not that bad yet

Nobody cares.


I was thinking about moving down there, but there is not one property available in all of Del Boca Vista.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
The original plan was to move out of state once the kids are in college.

That might change.

Fuck Illinois.


Same. Only three years away now from college. We've started scoping out land to build our "retirement home".

And Schaumburg is actually shrinking (really stagnating. They lost about 1,000 residents between 2000 and 2010.

http://www.ci.schaumburg.il.us/about/demographics.htm


If you are thinking down here you better get to it,running out of land and old places to tear down to build new stuff. Fucking rent is outrageous in Tampa itself, over on this side of the bay it is not that bad yet

Nobody cares.


I was thinking about moving down there, but there is not one property available in all of Del Boca Vista.

Are you trying to keep us OUT of Del Boca Vista?

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:03 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Trump really wants to drain the swamp and burn it to the ground.


No he doesn't. He just said that to get stupid people to vote for him.

I'm really disappointed that you aren't calling him a motherfucking liar every day, with all of his failed campaign promises. Not only are most of them unfulfilled, he has done a 180 on several of them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:08 pm 
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I think he meant "if Trump wants to drain the swamp and burn it to the ground [sic], he'll assign . . .", so maybe he thinks Trump has been a liar to date but could theoretically redeem himself. Stewardess, I speak Poopcup.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Chus wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
The original plan was to move out of state once the kids are in college.

That might change.

Fuck Illinois.


Same. Only three years away now from college. We've started scoping out land to build our "retirement home".

And Schaumburg is actually shrinking (really stagnating. They lost about 1,000 residents between 2000 and 2010.

http://www.ci.schaumburg.il.us/about/demographics.htm


If you are thinking down here you better get to it,running out of land and old places to tear down to build new stuff. Fucking rent is outrageous in Tampa itself, over on this side of the bay it is not that bad yet

Nobody cares.


I was thinking about moving down there, but there is not one property available in all of Del Boca Vista.

Are you trying to keep us OUT of Del Boca Vista?


You think you can keep us out of Florida? We're moving in lock, stock, and barrel. We're gonna be in the pool. We're gonna be in the clubhouse. We're gonna be all over that shuffleboard court! And I dare you to keep me out!

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:55 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nothing worse than a former Chicagoan living in utopia--and coming back to tell you nothing you don't already know.

Utopia = Omaha?

i have no idea who lives there. what i meant was (etc.)


i have friends in omaha, though, and it's a great place


I may be headed that direction next year for a job transfer. It would not suck.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:16 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
denisdman wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Trump really wants to drain the swamp and burn it to the ground. Assign a special investigation/prosecutor on the looting of the Social Security System by Congress and by extension the looting of the pension funds in all levels in Illinois. See a lot of people going to jail,especially the two Madigains. I mean honestly if they had done this in the real business would would they have not been brought up on either charges like Madoff or Enron?


The Illinois pension weren't. The required contributions weren't made or were funded by issuing debt. There are a few problems with double dipping and bad practices of allowing workers to load up overtime and vacation days in their final year to earn an out sized pension (i.e. higher than their final salary), but those were allowable in the rules.

Social security is another matter. It is nearly a paygo system. Any private pension would have been declared insolvent if it followed Social Security's rules. Private pensions start triggering warnings at 80% funded ratio. Social Security may be about 5% funded and with treasury bonds to boot.


The CPS pensions where borrowed from.


Don't you mean they borrowed money to make the required contribution? I don't think the unions would ever allow money to be borrowed from them nor I have I ever heard of anyone borrowing from pension money.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:35 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
But for anyone in the market for a suburban home, Pulte is great. They have excellent end to end customer service, and it is the best built home I have ever owned. Next to zero problems in my 13 years of ownership. I get tons of compliments on the design too.


Why have you taken my thoughts on Pulte so personally?

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