It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:28 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 238 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:08 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.



If Jeb Bush is elected President Coates doesn't right this article. I'm convinced about that. Trump is the person that first made the race about "race" for lack of a better term. Once he decided to do that and there weren't any repercussions it became fair game to keep the subject on the table.

One of the things that you ignore is the role that economics play in the tensions. Reverse discrimination charges primarily have emanated from the same group of Whites that you and others continuously claim could care less about race. That's a misnomer and patently false. If you think that poor whites have ignored this issue then you are wrong. I can produce countless examples where they have been the group leading the charge to roll back things such as affirmative action. When you look at slavery and segregation they were there every step of the way also. Its simply incorrect to think that they have too much going on to concern themselves about issues dealing with race.

When you look at unions and working class you find exactly the same scenario. Blacks have customarily been denied entry into Unions both past and present. Construction for blacks in Chicago is a non starter. We are still settling discrimination disputes in our fire dept post 2000 as well.

As I stated before I wish unification along economic lines were the case but it isn't and hasn't been historically.

Not everything is about race and I actually have tried to be balanced in my assessment as best I can. I bring biases to these sort of discussions also. I admit that. I will bring blacks to task on things too. Its one of the reasons I voted for Hillary over Obama. Aside from thinking she was the better candidate it upset me that a lot of blacks voted for him simply because he was black. When people say "identity" politics at work that's it. I also told people that they shouldn't be upset when whites return the favor. Didn't know the "favor" would come in the form of Trump. Ironically Coates is doing that with this article. I agree with him nonetheless and actually have come to understand why blacks voted for Obama in 08 also. I didn't then.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule



People keep asserting that they shouldn't be labeled racists for voting for Trump. Consider the not so subtle way that certain people here continuously assert that blacks are stupid for voting Democrat. That charge is subliminally made by MANY on here and I along with Reader especially have attempted to refute the charge without ever making it personal. Its interesting that the questioning of voting preferences never is considered offensive in those MANY instances.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Coates was correct when he referenced safe spaces during racial discussions involving Trump. For instance it is much easier/safer to think of his victory as more of an Anti Hillary vote as opposed to a Pro Trump vote. It is easier to think of the birther movement as something promoted by Hillary Clinton and not him also. The vote for Trump had more to do with working class angst as opposed to racial backlash. This narrative has been consistently pushed even though post election polling showed that Hillary actually received a greater share of the vote from those making less than $50,000.

I'll grant right off the bat that the media's focus on the white working class has sucked for a plethora of reasons, including but not limited to the ones you cite. And it's more comforting for a general view of the US citizenry to continue to believe racism is something confined only to the periphery. That said, I'd suggest for much of Coates' largely white liberal centrist readership in The Atlantic and the press pundits who give him glowing reviews, it is in fact much easier to dismiss Trump voters as racists who could never have any hope of redemption.

Coates certainly understands racism as systematic, but essays like this just reinforce the current Democratic and liberal focus on racism as being a strictly individualist phenomenon and as something so ontologically primitive that it is impossible to confront at all through the dull work of coalition building and persuasion. It likewise reinforces the notion of politics consisting of good and bad people and makes the whole project of discussion disposable, with combative call-outs being a more cathartic replacement. It fits in nicely with the horrid demographic arguments so many Democratic strategists constantly trumpet, as if we just have to wait for the racist poors to die out and everything will then be hunky dory. Never mind the fact that people switched from Obama to Trump and never mind the fact that on many issues Trump is not negating but actually reinforcing Obama's legacy (which consists of the good and bad things he did in office) and never mind the fact that the main reason Hillary lost was because so many people in the Obama coalition stayed home altogether. It's instead far more comforting to believe the people failed the Democratic party and by extension the nation and that they can never be moved at all, rather than the Democratic party failing the people.

I'd suggest even Coates' work which most stridently portrays racism as systematic like the reparations essay still allows liberals this comfort because the proposal is so vague and unspecified that the main response to that essay isn't to actually advocate for reparation but instead sigh and reflect about the tragic failures of America without any change to the status quo whatsoever, most especially and importantly capitalism and the myth of meritocracy.

This is why I found the Haider essay I linked to on the first page as well as R.L. Stephens' criticism more compelling as they're about actual political action rather than the paralysis or mere reflection that so many middle and upper middle class liberals take away from his essays. Coates of course is free to write about whatever he wants and doesn't need to present a step-by-step plan for change in anything that he writes, but I worry the effect of them is that readers merely have their consciousness raised without changing any aspect of their lives at all.



I actually believe that Coates was on to something. The Republican Party has played identity politics more than anyone. When you look at the past 50 years it is they that have chosen to shun groups which help comprise "the others". They have absolutely no use for the black vote. Black politicians must take the oath of token in order to gain any traction. Immigrants are targeted lest they agree to wash dishes and cut grass first. Policies which seek to benefit minority groups are often targeted for extinction. Hate groups are often allowed to park somewhere on the fringes of the party without ever being rebuked. Their slogans often harken back to an era where lynching, racism, bigotry, and corrupted legal systems were the rule.

Republicans have rightly learned how to play the divisive game. They in essence throw rocks and hide their hands. Democrats indulge them but not enough in my book. Obama tip toed around it for 8 years and still was considered divisive by some on the right. Hillary didn't make the sale on it either. Democrats are fearful of ticking off the white working class by indulging in too much "race talk". Dates back to FDR which Coates correctly noted.


Did LTG just say black republicans are tokens? Ergo, there really can't be black republican voters?



Black Republicans have to denigrate and demean other blacks in order to be elected by Republican voters. Been part of the playbook for the past 30 years. Not exactly revelatory.


They have to say many of the same things you do. :P



I'm fair and balanced. No one is more fair and balanced than me. :lol:

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23917
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:18 pm
Posts: 19456
pizza_Place: Phils' on 35th all you need to know
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
This article is complete bullshit. For many years, I considered myself a liberal. But I, like many others, am tired of being told how awful I am simply for being white. There are tons of whites who recognize the fact that we have advantages in life and don't deny it. Yet somehow we need to be beaten over the head until we are zombies who hate ourselves for the "misfortune" of our birth as white people.

I'm down to help fight for equal rights for the oppressed, but it makes it hard when some mythical "whiteness" label tells me at every turn that my opinion doesn't matter.

The area I grew up in is pretty fucking poor. But it's rural poor, so according to Liberal royalty (aka the Clintons), it's not really poor. That shit gets exhausting, and it does nothing but alienate a good number of people, including many who are willing to fight the good fight. At its core, it's the definition of racism.


If THIS bothers you imagine how it's felt to be black in America for the past 400 years or so. MANY would take what is bothering you in a heartbeat.


I'm Sure there have not been blacks in America for 400 years ,please stop with the lie.

_________________
When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:33 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule



People keep asserting that they shouldn't be labeled racists for voting for Trump. Consider the not so subtle way that certain people here continuously assert that blacks are stupid for voting Democrat. That charge is subliminally made by MANY on here and I along with Reader especially have attempted to refute the charge without ever making it personal. Its interesting that the questioning of voting preferences never is considered offensive in those MANY instances.


I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie. On this board and everywhere else in America MANY claimed that blacks were unable to be objective UNLESS you were criticizing him. Now the suggestion that some whites may have voted for Trump because he was a white man( that spent 8 years belittling Obama) is out of bounds and unfair. It's the height of hypocrisy. Same is true for the racist label. I've been called racist MANY times in the 13 years I've posted here. I've seen the label placed on RR and insinuated or placed on you. I've also seen a guy that was on edge at the idea someone could consider him to be a bigot call you an antisemite within 3 posts of criticizing Netanyahu. The board may explode if anyone besides ES or chas were called racist. There would be another roundtable about the use of that label. This is why I roll my eyes every time I see a post by someone complaining about labels. #PracticeWhatYouPreach

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:40 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Hatchetman wrote:
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?


He's making you have an uncomfortable conversation that you wouldn't normally have. Sure it's unlikely that you will change your views or have an open mind. Getting you to talk about it is progress.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Nas wrote:
I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie.

In your opinion how valid is the stereotype that black people dont like or trust Jewish people?



None of you guys are racist, you're just assholes and a smidge prejudice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88935
Location: To the left of my post
What really doesn't make sense though is that when you compare it to Romney, Trump didn't really do a good job even against a much less likeable candidate.

2012 Romney: 60,933,504 (47.2%)
2016 Trump: 62,984,825 (46.1%)

So, Trump got more votes total, but a lower total percentage. Getting more votes total isn't a shock given how populations increase.

Just for the other part of it, Hillary got a much lower percentage but almost the exact same number of votes as 2012 Obama.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:56 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie.

In your opinion how valid is the stereotype that black people dont like or trust Jewish people?



None of you guys are racist, you're just assholes and a smidge prejudice.


Most blacks couldn't pick a Jewish person out of a lineup. Blacks still have issues with Hispanics. Look no further than the mayoral race in Chicago for proof.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule



People keep asserting that they shouldn't be labeled racists for voting for Trump. Consider the not so subtle way that certain people here continuously assert that blacks are stupid for voting Democrat. That charge is subliminally made by MANY on here and I along with Reader especially have attempted to refute the charge without ever making it personal. Its interesting that the questioning of voting preferences never is considered offensive in those MANY instances.


Do you think that anyone who voted for Trump is racist?

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie.

In your opinion how valid is the stereotype that black people dont like or trust Jewish people?



None of you guys are racist, you're just assholes and a smidge prejudice.


Most blacks couldn't pick a Jewish person out of a lineup. Blacks still have issues with Hispanics. Look no further than the mayoral race in Chicago for proof.

Yea, I can see that. Growing up where I did there were almost no Jewish people. I thought they were a much smaller group until I got older.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 9340
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Nas wrote:
Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule

Get over it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:14 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Hockey Gay wrote:
Nas wrote:
Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule

Get over it



:lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23917
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?


He's making you have an uncomfortable conversation that you wouldn't normally have. Sure it's unlikely that you will change your views or have an open mind. Getting you to talk about it is progress.


I got into heated exchange with the local millionaire socialist about this. She's only 5'2" so I couldn't punch her. Not sure what that accomplished.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:20 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?


He's making you have an uncomfortable conversation that you wouldn't normally have. Sure it's unlikely that you will change your views or have an open mind. Getting you to talk about it is progress.


I got into heated exchange with the local millionaire socialist about this. She's only 5'2" so I couldn't punch her. Not sure what that accomplished.


I'm a believer that you can get something positive from anything.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?


He's making you have an uncomfortable conversation that you wouldn't normally have. Sure it's unlikely that you will change your views or have an open mind. Getting you to talk about it is progress.


I got into heated exchange with the local millionaire socialist about this. She's only 5'2" so I couldn't punch her. Not sure what that accomplished.


I'm a believer that you can get something positive from anything.


Fuck off.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:22 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
leashyourkids wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?


He's making you have an uncomfortable conversation that you wouldn't normally have. Sure it's unlikely that you will change your views or have an open mind. Getting you to talk about it is progress.


I got into heated exchange with the local millionaire socialist about this. She's only 5'2" so I couldn't punch her. Not sure what that accomplished.


I'm a believer that you can get something positive from anything.


Fuck off.


I love you too.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Nas wrote:

I'm a believer that you can get something positive from anything.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:47 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37208
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
So do you Ta-Nehisi Coates fans think he is actually making the world a better place? If so, how?


He's making you have an uncomfortable conversation that you wouldn't normally have. Sure it's unlikely that you will change your views or have an open mind. Getting you to talk about it is progress.


I got into heated exchange with the local millionaire socialist about this. She's only 5'2" so I couldn't punch her. Not sure what that accomplished.


:lol: :lol:

Taking veiled shots here at Seacrest's cousin.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 15018
pizza_Place: Wha Happen?
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie.

In your opinion how valid is the stereotype that black people dont like or trust Jewish people?



None of you guys are racist, you're just assholes and a smidge prejudice.


Most blacks couldn't pick a Jewish person out of a lineup. Blacks still have issues with Hispanics. Look no further than the mayoral race in Chicago for proof.

this is what's so interesting to me...there's these older people that can identify races of whites by looking at them. I can't tell a Jew from a Italian from a German from a Finn...

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule



People keep asserting that they shouldn't be labeled racists for voting for Trump. Consider the not so subtle way that certain people here continuously assert that blacks are stupid for voting Democrat. That charge is subliminally made by MANY on here and I along with Reader especially have attempted to refute the charge without ever making it personal. Its interesting that the questioning of voting preferences never is considered offensive in those MANY instances.


I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie. On this board and everywhere else in America MANY claimed that blacks were unable to be objective UNLESS you were criticizing him. Now the suggestion that some whites may have voted for Trump because he was a white man( that spent 8 years belittling Obama) is out of bounds and unfair. It's the height of hypocrisy. Same is true for the racist label. I've been called racist MANY times in the 13 years I've posted here. I've seen the label placed on RR and insinuated or placed on you. I've also seen a guy that was on edge at the idea someone could consider him to be a bigot call you an antisemite within 3 posts of criticizing Netanyahu. The board may explode if anyone besides ES or chas were called racist. There would be another roundtable about the use of that label. This is why I roll my eyes every time I see a post by someone complaining about labels. #PracticeWhatYouPreach


Lost among all of this is the fact that both you & I were clearly not the biggest fans of Obama (for reasons later borne out) until June of 2008. Hell, I still in large part blame the dotard's presidency on his inability to take aggressive stands.

I don't think LTG had a substantial presence around here then, but I'm comfortable opining that he too would have shared our skepticism.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
City of Fools wrote:
I can't tell a Jew from a Italian

One of them is holding a pizza with one hand and kissing his fingers with the other. The other is picking up an allergy prescription.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
City of Fools wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie.

In your opinion how valid is the stereotype that black people dont like or trust Jewish people?



None of you guys are racist, you're just assholes and a smidge prejudice.


Most blacks couldn't pick a Jewish person out of a lineup. Blacks still have issues with Hispanics. Look no further than the mayoral race in Chicago for proof.

this is what's so interesting to me...there's these older people that can identify races of whites by looking at them. I can't tell a Jew from a Italian from a German from a Finn...


I have to admit that due to basically growing up in Hyde Park, I can. It was an odd melting pot.

Odd twist though, Hyde Park is arguably the most progressive area in the Midwest, in part sustained by one of the most libertarian/conservative institutions of higher learning in the country. With it's militaristic private police force.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:29 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule



People keep asserting that they shouldn't be labeled racists for voting for Trump. Consider the not so subtle way that certain people here continuously assert that blacks are stupid for voting Democrat. That charge is subliminally made by MANY on here and I along with Reader especially have attempted to refute the charge without ever making it personal. Its interesting that the questioning of voting preferences never is considered offensive in those MANY instances.


I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie. On this board and everywhere else in America MANY claimed that blacks were unable to be objective UNLESS you were criticizing him. Now the suggestion that some whites may have voted for Trump because he was a white man( that spent 8 years belittling Obama) is out of bounds and unfair. It's the height of hypocrisy. Same is true for the racist label. I've been called racist MANY times in the 13 years I've posted here. I've seen the label placed on RR and insinuated or placed on you. I've also seen a guy that was on edge at the idea someone could consider him to be a bigot call you an antisemite within 3 posts of criticizing Netanyahu. The board may explode if anyone besides ES or chas were called racist. There would be another roundtable about the use of that label. This is why I roll my eyes every time I see a post by someone complaining about labels. #PracticeWhatYouPreach


Lost among all of this is the fact that both you & I were clearly not the biggest fans of Obama (for reasons later borne out) until June of 2008. Hell, I still in large part blame the dotard's presidency on his inability to take aggressive stands.

I don't think LTG had a substantial presence around here then, but I'm comfortable opining that he too would have shared our skepticism.


Then spent 8 years criticizing policies that we didn't agree with.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 39693
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
I am busy today and all weekend with a wedding, guests etc. This is a great thread and it is right when Nas said you get a conversation from things like this Coates piece. I look forward to reading all weekend when I can.

_________________
Brick wrote:
Biden is doing a GOOD job.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 22588
Location: Boofoo Zoo
pizza_Place: Chuck E Cheese
Regular Reader wrote:
Lost among all of this is the fact that both you & I were clearly not the biggest fans of Obama (for reasons later borne out) until June of 2008. Hell, I still in large part blame the dotard's presidency on his inability to take aggressive stands.

I don't think LTG had a substantial presence around here then, but I'm comfortable opining that he too would have shared our skepticism.

Sadly Obama the candidate and Obama the President were 2 different things. It's not a surprise though, as Dems mostly campaign much farther to the left than what they do when they actually govern. Hillary lost because she didn't go far left enough, and that might not have even worked because I don't think anyone would have believed her if she did. Now a guy who Rs painted as a crazy socialist (no, not Bernie, Obama) is out there raking in mad cash for speeches from the big businesses he helped out during his 2 terms. That's not what the candidate Obama would have done, but the centrist, friend to corporations President was cool with it. But hey, we can't criticize him for it.

Image



Obama's signature legislation is a vote away from being toast and it's the Dems fault. In 2009 the Ds go and push for a bipartisan PPACA bill with tons of republican amendments and adjustments that looks like Romneycare. Rs whine the whole time and then vote against the bipartisan bill anyway. Ds still keep the bipartisan bullshit in their finished bill. In 2017 Ds are cool working with Rs to gut Obama's crown jewel, and the Rs laugh at them and just do what they want to healthcare.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:42 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 77043
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
KDdidit wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Lost among all of this is the fact that both you & I were clearly not the biggest fans of Obama (for reasons later borne out) until June of 2008. Hell, I still in large part blame the dotard's presidency on his inability to take aggressive stands.

I don't think LTG had a substantial presence around here then, but I'm comfortable opining that he too would have shared our skepticism.

Sadly Obama the candidate and Obama the President were 2 different things. It's not a surprise though, as Dems mostly campaign much farther to the left than what they do when they actually govern. Hillary lost because she didn't go far left enough, and that might not have even worked because I don't think anyone would have believed her if she did. Now a guy who Rs painted as a crazy socialist (no, not Bernie, Obama) is out there raking in mad cash for speeches from the big businesses he helped out during his 2 terms. That's not what the candidate Obama would have done, but the centrist, friend to corporations President was cool with it. But hey, we can't criticize him for it.

Image



Obama's signature legislation is a vote away from being toast and it's the Dems fault. In 2009 the Ds go and push for a bipartisan PPACA bill with tons of republican amendments and adjustments that looks like Romneycare. Rs whine the whole time and then vote against the bipartisan bill anyway. Ds still keep the bipartisan bullshit in their finished bill. In 2017 Ds are cool working with Rs to gut Obama's crown jewel, and the Rs laugh at them and just do what they want to healthcare.


I will never understand how a reasonable person would call Obama a far left liberal when he governed like a Blue Dog Democrat.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 28664
pizza_Place: Clamburger's
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I've never once waivered in my beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs, and I don't need validation from anyone. My frustration with "the Left" or whatever we want to call it does not change what I "believe" one iota. It's a separate point, and it's one that, in my mind, properly encapsulates the mindset of "Trump voters" or whatever we also want to call them (they're the people I grew up with - my friends and family).

And that point is that constantly hinting at they're racism is not only bullshit; it's going to have the opposite effect of what is intended. There are certainly racists in that group, but the majority are just people struggling to get by, like all of us do from time-to-time. They don't have time to be racist even if they were so inclined. They're busy trying to make ends meet and making sure their kids have an edible fucking lunch. Lumping them into these groups is no different than if I said inner-city people all need to get their shit together and stop complaining.

We (royal "we") need to stop blaming each other on the basis of skin color or ethnicity and realize that 90% of these issues are economic issues. We're on the same fucking team. I agree with LTG that there is resistance to believing that on both sides, but that doesn't make it any less true, and - IMO - it still remains the only way any of this gets close to being solved.

You can disagree, and I appreciate some of your kinder words, but please don't twist it to insinuate that I never believed in Liberal values. What I am stating here is the definition of Liberal values. We will never win hearts and minds if we continue to label people to specific groups. Judge the individual, not the perceived "group."

And for what it's worth, my prior posts are laced with acknowledgements of both historical and contemporary obstacles that minorities have to overcome. I just don't believe it is the caricature of the racist hillbilly that has caused these obstacles.

This is a good conversation to have. Let's be fair.


Yes being beaten over the head and called a racist solely because you are white is wrong. I understand how you and anyone else would be bothered by that. The label is bullshit. You don't think you should have to prove that you aren't racist. It probably frustrates and pisses you all off when your valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

Welcome to the world of blacks and other minorities. We're beaten over the head with the racist label and a bunch of other negative ones. We've been asking for the same things for years and was basically told to get over it. It frustrates and pisses us off too when our valid complaints are dismissed or completely ignored.

The opposite effect is what we're used to. Somehow regardless of the approach that how it ends up. In the end we all just want opportunities and to support our families. I think if we all did more listening and had an open mind we could stop talking past one another and start seeing progress again.

As I've said before many people are bothered when they're labeled and ask for grace from others. Many of those same people are quick to use similar labels to describe others. #GoldenRule



People keep asserting that they shouldn't be labeled racists for voting for Trump. Consider the not so subtle way that certain people here continuously assert that blacks are stupid for voting Democrat. That charge is subliminally made by MANY on here and I along with Reader especially have attempted to refute the charge without ever making it personal. Its interesting that the questioning of voting preferences never is considered offensive in those MANY instances.


I had Curious Hair suggest multiple times last year that I didn't criticize Obama because he was black. He said it because he didn't like my criticism of Bernie. On this board and everywhere else in America MANY claimed that blacks were unable to be objective UNLESS you were criticizing him. Now the suggestion that some whites may have voted for Trump because he was a white man( that spent 8 years belittling Obama) is out of bounds and unfair. It's the height of hypocrisy. Same is true for the racist label. I've been called racist MANY times in the 13 years I've posted here. I've seen the label placed on RR and insinuated or placed on you. I've also seen a guy that was on edge at the idea someone could consider him to be a bigot call you an antisemite within 3 posts of criticizing Netanyahu. The board may explode if anyone besides ES or chas were called racist. There would be another roundtable about the use of that label. This is why I roll my eyes every time I see a post by someone complaining about labels. #PracticeWhatYouPreach


Lost among all of this is the fact that both you & I were clearly not the biggest fans of Obama (for reasons later borne out) until June of 2008. Hell, I still in large part blame the dotard's presidency on his inability to take aggressive stands.

I don't think LTG had a substantial presence around here then, but I'm comfortable opining that he too would have shared our skepticism.


Then spent 8 years criticizing policies that we didn't agree with.


This is solid quoting here.

_________________
Nardi wrote:
Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 238 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group