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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Coates should focus less on writing comic books (nothing wrong with that) and more on being able to trade ideological punches.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Cornel West is right. You cannot equate Obama with Malcolm X. There is nothing similar about their message. They also chose different paths. Malcolm X was an activist and Obama was a politician. The missions were inherently going to be different. It seems that Coates is attempting to curry favor from Obama by equating him with a figure that is deified in a large portion of the black community.

West is also correct about the silence of the black elite with regards to issues effecting black America. It is why Obama was easily acceptable. Aside from race of course. Most of the black elite are comfortable remaining silent on the issue of race. Ambivalence is beneficial during their interactions with whites. After all it worked for Obama why can't it work for me? It is easier to demonstrate your racial bona fides by railing against Slavery and Jim Crow. In essence those are safe spaces with regard to racial discussions. It is much more difficult to discuss issues that currently effect minorities and poor people.


Blacks were mostly silent on Obama. There were a myriad of reasons for this but the primary reason relates to customs. Blacks have long had a problem with "airing out dirty laundry" in public. You are considered a betrayer of the race when you actively engage in such behavior.

Obama continued a number of policies that blacks would have criticized if they'd been continued by whites. The aforementioned drone policies are one and so are the policies that further enriched the wealthy. He also was largely silent on the plight of the poor. That's true.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:40 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Cornel West is right. You cannot equate Obama with Malcolm X. There is nothing similar about their message. They also chose different paths. Malcolm X was an activist and Obama was a politician. The missions were inherently going to be different. It seems that Coates is attempting to curry favor from Obama by equating him with a figure that is deified in a large portion of the black community.

West is also correct about the silence of the black elite with regards to issues effecting black America. It is why Obama was easily acceptable. Aside from race of course. Most of the black elite are comfortable remaining silent on the issue of race. Ambivalence is beneficial during their interactions with whites. After all it worked for Obama why can't it work for me? It is easier to demonstrate your racial bona fides by railing against Slavery and Jim Crow. In essence those are safe spaces with regard to racial discussions. It is much more difficult to discuss issues that currently effect minorities and poor people.


Blacks were mostly silent on Obama. There were a myriad of reasons for this but the primary reason relates to customs. Blacks have long had a problem with "airing out dirty laundry" in public. You are considered a betrayer of the race when you actively engage in such behavior.

Obama continued a number of policies that blacks would have criticized if they'd been continued by whites. The aforementioned drone policies are one and so are the policies that further enriched the wealthy. He also was largely silent on the plight of the poor. That's true.


I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Ta-Nehisi "Don't need any winter Coates for heading out to West.... and no West for the Weary, or Cornell in this case....She took him back, back, back, and gone.
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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:59 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Cornel West is right. You cannot equate Obama with Malcolm X. There is nothing similar about their message. They also chose different paths. Malcolm X was an activist and Obama was a politician. The missions were inherently going to be different. It seems that Coates is attempting to curry favor from Obama by equating him with a figure that is deified in a large portion of the black community.

West is also correct about the silence of the black elite with regards to issues effecting black America. It is why Obama was easily acceptable. Aside from race of course. Most of the black elite are comfortable remaining silent on the issue of race. Ambivalence is beneficial during their interactions with whites. After all it worked for Obama why can't it work for me? It is easier to demonstrate your racial bona fides by railing against Slavery and Jim Crow. In essence those are safe spaces with regard to racial discussions. It is much more difficult to discuss issues that currently effect minorities and poor people.


Blacks were mostly silent on Obama. There were a myriad of reasons for this but the primary reason relates to customs. Blacks have long had a problem with "airing out dirty laundry" in public. You are considered a betrayer of the race when you actively engage in such behavior.

Obama continued a number of policies that blacks would have criticized if they'd been continued by whites. The aforementioned drone policies are one and so are the policies that further enriched the wealthy. He also was largely silent on the plight of the poor. That's true.


When it comes to Obama I'm torn. It never seemed like he was passionate about anything or had any fight in him. Even when you saw him clearly shaken about Sandy Hook and the church shooting he never went out and truly fought for the change he wanted.

I was sure we would see that fighter his 2nd term. By Year 6 I knew that guy wouldn't show up. Is it because he doesn't exist or was Obama playing thinking big picture? This country is still a majority white country and that won't change in our lifetime. If he baved like Trump or worse it would likely make it difficult for another minority to ascend to that office any time soon. He carried the responsibility of leading this country and representing minorities. That's a lot of weight to carry. While I wanted more I do understand that if Jackie Robinson behaves like Ali the experiment likely ends there. The way he carried himself will allow the majority to consider electing another minority. T

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:05 pm 
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I'm whiter than the cliffs of Dover so I'm really speaking out of turn on all of this, but I don't begrudge being either pro- or anti-Coates. The learned helplessness of white supremacy that Coates preaches has to resonate with a lot of people, but if people don't want to simply accept that, how can I argue that?

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Cornel West is right. You cannot equate Obama with Malcolm X. There is nothing similar about their message. They also chose different paths. Malcolm X was an activist and Obama was a politician. The missions were inherently going to be different. It seems that Coates is attempting to curry favor from Obama by equating him with a figure that is deified in a large portion of the black community.

West is also correct about the silence of the black elite with regards to issues effecting black America. It is why Obama was easily acceptable. Aside from race of course. Most of the black elite are comfortable remaining silent on the issue of race. Ambivalence is beneficial during their interactions with whites. After all it worked for Obama why can't it work for me? It is easier to demonstrate your racial bona fides by railing against Slavery and Jim Crow. In essence those are safe spaces with regard to racial discussions. It is much more difficult to discuss issues that currently effect minorities and poor people.


Blacks were mostly silent on Obama. There were a myriad of reasons for this but the primary reason relates to customs. Blacks have long had a problem with "airing out dirty laundry" in public. You are considered a betrayer of the race when you actively engage in such behavior.

Obama continued a number of policies that blacks would have criticized if they'd been continued by whites. The aforementioned drone policies are one and so are the policies that further enriched the wealthy. He also was largely silent on the plight of the poor. That's true.


When it comes to Obama I'm torn. It never seemed like he was passionate about anything or had any fight in him. Even when you saw him clearly shaken about Sandy Hook and the church shooting he never went out and truly fought for the change he wanted.

I was sure we would see that fighter his 2nd term. By Year 6 I knew that guy wouldn't show up. Is it because he doesn't exist or was Obama playing thinking big picture? This country is still a majority white country and that won't change in our lifetime. If he baved like Trump or worse it would likely make it difficult for another minority to ascend to that office any time soon. He carried the responsibility of leading this country and representing minorities. That's a lot of weight to carry. While I wanted more I do understand that if Jackie Robinson behaves like Ali the experiment likely ends there. The way he carried himself will allow the majority to consider electing another minority. T


I see it as Obama is one of the most important presidents in our history but certainly not one of the best presidents.

I saw that Coates book on a bookshelf in the airport next to another book named Thanks Obama written by an Obama staffer. I thought to myself that if I was going to buy an Obama slurp piece, I'd rather read the entertaining one that might give a juicy detail. In the end I bought neither as Detroit is a one hour flight and I would hardly have busted open my M and M's by the time I would need to stop reading.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
tommy wrote:
Coates's essay on reparations was fantastic. The idea that we'd be paying for segregation and Jim Crow, not so much slavery, is key. The rest of his work . . . it's like fodder for white trust-funders and upper-middle-class black people from NYU with afros or dreads.

Adolph Reed once wrote an essay called, I believe, "What Are the Drums Saying?" about the phenomenon of the black public intellectual who interprets black culture on behalf of the Democratic Party. He wrote it as a rejoinder to Cornel West and Henry Louis Gates, but I think Coates has assumed that mantle.

EDIT: here's a scan: https://libcom.org/files/ReedWhatAreThe ... Booker.pdf


I wonder if he realizes that he is shooting from within his glass house atop his own apparently comfortable ivory tower. To me his piece read like a less damning scolding from Thomas Sowell.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:44 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Cornel West is right. You cannot equate Obama with Malcolm X. There is nothing similar about their message. They also chose different paths. Malcolm X was an activist and Obama was a politician. The missions were inherently going to be different. It seems that Coates is attempting to curry favor from Obama by equating him with a figure that is deified in a large portion of the black community.

West is also correct about the silence of the black elite with regards to issues effecting black America. It is why Obama was easily acceptable. Aside from race of course. Most of the black elite are comfortable remaining silent on the issue of race. Ambivalence is beneficial during their interactions with whites. After all it worked for Obama why can't it work for me? It is easier to demonstrate your racial bona fides by railing against Slavery and Jim Crow. In essence those are safe spaces with regard to racial discussions. It is much more difficult to discuss issues that currently effect minorities and poor people.


Blacks were mostly silent on Obama. There were a myriad of reasons for this but the primary reason relates to customs. Blacks have long had a problem with "airing out dirty laundry" in public. You are considered a betrayer of the race when you actively engage in such behavior.

Obama continued a number of policies that blacks would have criticized if they'd been continued by whites. The aforementioned drone policies are one and so are the policies that further enriched the wealthy. He also was largely silent on the plight of the poor. That's true.


When it comes to Obama I'm torn. It never seemed like he was passionate about anything or had any fight in him. Even when you saw him clearly shaken about Sandy Hook and the church shooting he never went out and truly fought for the change he wanted.

I was sure we would see that fighter his 2nd term. By Year 6 I knew that guy wouldn't show up. Is it because he doesn't exist or was Obama playing thinking big picture? This country is still a majority white country and that won't change in our lifetime. If he baved like Trump or worse it would likely make it difficult for another minority to ascend to that office any time soon. He carried the responsibility of leading this country and representing minorities. That's a lot of weight to carry. While I wanted more I do understand that if Jackie Robinson behaves like Ali the experiment likely ends there. The way he carried himself will allow the majority to consider electing another minority. T


I see it as Obama is one of the most important presidents in our history but certainly not one of the best presidents.


I saw that Coates book on a bookshelf in the airport next to another book named Thanks Obama written by an Obama staffer. I thought to myself that if I was going to buy an Obama slurp piece, I'd rather read the entertaining one that might give a juicy detail. In the end I bought neither as Detroit is a one hour flight and I would hardly have busted open my M and M's by the time I would need to stop reading.


What do we consider best? If we're talking top 15 or so I completely agree. He's probably somewhere in the middle of the pack but history will be kind to him.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Cornel West is right. You cannot equate Obama with Malcolm X. There is nothing similar about their message. They also chose different paths. Malcolm X was an activist and Obama was a politician. The missions were inherently going to be different. It seems that Coates is attempting to curry favor from Obama by equating him with a figure that is deified in a large portion of the black community.

West is also correct about the silence of the black elite with regards to issues effecting black America. It is why Obama was easily acceptable. Aside from race of course. Most of the black elite are comfortable remaining silent on the issue of race. Ambivalence is beneficial during their interactions with whites. After all it worked for Obama why can't it work for me? It is easier to demonstrate your racial bona fides by railing against Slavery and Jim Crow. In essence those are safe spaces with regard to racial discussions. It is much more difficult to discuss issues that currently effect minorities and poor people.


Blacks were mostly silent on Obama. There were a myriad of reasons for this but the primary reason relates to customs. Blacks have long had a problem with "airing out dirty laundry" in public. You are considered a betrayer of the race when you actively engage in such behavior.

Obama continued a number of policies that blacks would have criticized if they'd been continued by whites. The aforementioned drone policies are one and so are the policies that further enriched the wealthy. He also was largely silent on the plight of the poor. That's true.


When it comes to Obama I'm torn. It never seemed like he was passionate about anything or had any fight in him. Even when you saw him clearly shaken about Sandy Hook and the church shooting he never went out and truly fought for the change he wanted.

I was sure we would see that fighter his 2nd term. By Year 6 I knew that guy wouldn't show up. Is it because he doesn't exist or was Obama playing thinking big picture? This country is still a majority white country and that won't change in our lifetime. If he baved like Trump or worse it would likely make it difficult for another minority to ascend to that office any time soon. He carried the responsibility of leading this country and representing minorities. That's a lot of weight to carry. While I wanted more I do understand that if Jackie Robinson behaves like Ali the experiment likely ends there. The way he carried himself will allow the majority to consider electing another minority. T



You weren't alone as far as his 2nd term went. A number of people thought that also. They believed that he would become more of a fighter because he wasn't running for re election. I never believed that he had that in him. That is where guys like Jeremiah Wright came in. He used Jeremiah Wright in many respects also. When I looked at Obama's history I saw a that he was never passionate about that sort of thing. I also saw an opportunist that would use people to get ahead. Doesn't make him a bad guy either. Just didn't think he would make for a good President.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:46 pm 
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MILWAUKEE-Asked restaurant host: "God, did you hear about Ta-Nehisi Coates twitter account?"
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Thought he would cry.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Is his Twitter avatar the chick from Bow Wow Wow?


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Pretty interesting:

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/50070

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


I don't have the desire to hear their one warmed over piece yet, but the comments are pretty comical and high handed

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:51 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


I don't have the desire to hear their one warmed over piece yet, but the comments are pretty comical and high handed



Here's Coates and McWhorter together. Worth a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXjfZkJ2qos

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:55 am 
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I watched about half an hour of that. I agree that Coates is unfairly labeled as a neoliberal, but the cheerleading for neoliberalism left a bad taste in my mouth. I think Coates's afropessimism and its implicit reinforcement of the status quo is being mistaken for neoliberalism. But again, if you believe as Coates does that racism and white supremacy are inestimable forces that can never be conquered, then what is anyone supposed to do? No wonder white NPR liberals love his writing so much: they get off on being told that everything both is and isn't their fault, that the illness can be diagnosed but never treated, the bad news is you're bad but the good news is you don't have to do anything about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:02 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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Afropessimism sells books.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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Is that what Walt practices?

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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Hatchetman wrote:
Afropessimism sells books.

Neoliberals buy books too.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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FavreFan wrote:
Neoliberals buy books too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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Curious Hair wrote:
I watched about half an hour of that. I agree that Coates is unfairly labeled as a neoliberal, but the cheerleading for neoliberalism left a bad taste in my mouth. I think Coates's afropessimism and its implicit reinforcement of the status quo is being mistaken for neoliberalism. But again, if you believe as Coates does that racism and white supremacy are inestimable forces that can never be conquered, then what is anyone supposed to do? No wonder white NPR liberals love his writing so much: they get off on being told that everything both is and isn't their fault, that the illness can be diagnosed but never treated, the bad news is you're bad but the good news is you don't have to do anything about it.


Well, I don't think that diatribe was really Prof. Loury cheerleading for neoliberalism as much as it was an acknowledgement of how much modern American pseudo-capitalism has improved standards of living in spite of its flaws and legitimate criticisms of the system. The truth is- and I'm self aware enough to recognize myself here- there is a certain irony to criticizing capitalism via an iPhone.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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Curious Hair wrote:
I watched about half an hour of that. I agree that Coates is unfairly labeled as a neoliberal, but the cheerleading for neoliberalism left a bad taste in my mouth. I think Coates's afropessimism and its implicit reinforcement of the status quo is being mistaken for neoliberalism. But again, if you believe as Coates does that racism and white supremacy are inestimable forces that can never be conquered, then what is anyone supposed to do? No wonder white NPR liberals love his writing so much: they get off on being told that everything both is and isn't their fault, that the illness can be diagnosed but never treated, the bad news is you're bad but the good news is you don't have to do anything about it.



I'm an NPR liberal who thinks his writing is largely rubbish.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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good dolphin wrote:


I'm an NPR liberal who thinks his writing is largely rubbish.

Last year, Clarence Page called him the flavor of the month and seemed neither impressed nor unimpressed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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tommy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:


I'm an NPR liberal who thinks his writing is largely rubbish.

Last year, Clarence Page called him the flavor of the month and seemed neither impressed nor unimpressed.


I feel similarly to those guys on the podcast Joe cited. The mechanics of his writing are solid enough to make it a pleasant enough reading experience but the thoughts are so hollow. He is like a beautifully decorated cake that tastes bad. I can see why people could be tricked into thinking his work is important.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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good dolphin wrote:
tommy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:


I'm an NPR liberal who thinks his writing is largely rubbish.

Last year, Clarence Page called him the flavor of the month and seemed neither impressed nor unimpressed.


I feel similarly to those guys on the podcast Joe cited. The mechanics of his writing are solid enough to make it a pleasant enough reading experience but the thoughts are so hollow. He is like a beautifully decorated cake that tastes bad. I can see why people could be tricked into thinking his work is important.


What did you find hollow about his writings on housing policy discrimination.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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NPR seems to be a Liberal Network but they all are!

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates
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Tuck opines in his new book.

Tuck is old enough to notice how humiliating it ought to be to contemporary intellectuals that they feel obligated to praise the intelligence of Ta-Nehisi Coates:

"‘Between the World and Me’ is an unusually bad book: poorly written, intellectually flabby, relentlessly shallow, and bigoted. No honest reader with an IQ over 100 could be impressed by it. One presumes that the moment America wakes up from its current fever, Coates’s memoir will be forgotten immediately, an embarrassing relic from an embarrassing time."-from the book


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"Change has come to Amerika."- TFG


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