People would care about Catalonia if the protesters had arms to defend themselves. Then they would've been able to assert their rights. Let's see how easily the police would've closed polling stations if people had arms. I bet they would've held back. It's easy to trample on rights when the trampled have no means to exert force.

If the Bundys were unarmed, the Federal forces would've just moved in, beat them down, and hauled them away. That didn't happen though. The arms forced them to stand down.

But this extended hypothetical says nothing about how much the US or anyone else would care, which was the entire basis this defense of an armed citizenry depended on. Again, the world would only care as much as it was connected to those governments' strategic interests, just like it would in the case of the US exerting force on its own citizenry whether armed or unarmed.


Again, as Tall Midget pointed out earlier, the government choosing to exercise another form of power besides brute force doesn't thereby mean that the arms singlehandedly forced them to back down. The strength of the "this would be a bad look" argument depends on the tools the government has available to it, and becomes far less of a consideration if there's no alternative to purely violent force.

The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.

Back to the land rights argument, it seems like the government's stance is pretty fair. They control the land to stop it becoming a situation where companies buy up huge swaths of land to then do what they want on it including selling grazing rights at a high cost or using up all the local water or other things. They in general are pretty generous with giving grazing rights to the locals for a below market fee(remember, the same government literally buys milk to be poured out onto the ground). This seems like more of a case of the theoretical issue of government control rather than actual government control. Now, I'm sure there are negatives to the situation for the Bundy family, but you can deal with it better than how they deal with it.

The 2014 Bundy standoff was an armed confrontation between supporters of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy and law enforcement following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM) obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in withheld grazing fees for Bundy's use of federally-owned land adjacent to Bundy's ranch in southeastern Nevada.

The ongoing dispute started in 1993, when, in protest against changes in grazing rules, Bundy declined to renew his permit for cattle grazing on BLM-administered public lands near Bunkerville, Nevada.[2] According to Bundy, the federal government lacks the constitutional authority to own vast tracts of lands, an argument repeatedly rejected by federal courts. According to the BLM, Bundy continued to graze his cattle on public lands without a permit. In 1998, Bundy was prohibited by the United States District Court for the District of Nevada from grazing his cattle on an area of land later called the Bunkerville Allotment. In July 2013, federal judge Lloyd D. George ordered Bundy to refrain from trespassing on federally administered land in the Gold Butte area of Clark County.

Seems likes a huge prick to me.

I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Ogie pals around with moochers that never pay their debts. It's a shame he wasn't around here to defend Scorehead back in the day.

Even pricks who you would never want to meet in person can take up a noble cause. See John Brown

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Let us not forget after one of their "leaders" was shot and killed reaching for a gun, everyone but a few of the hardcore die for your country types basically gave up. If I'm not mistaken, even Bundy himself said it was time to turn themselves in.

What kind of armed resistance is that?

welfare queens to boot. crying because their handout terms were changed. so they went to go play pretend cowboy

Yup.

Very odd position by Ogie. Cries the government are thieves and then defends thieves.

It's not at all difficult for one to discern that these idiots should be thrown down a well for the good of society. Their cause is not remotely noble, and to say otherwise is simply because one has some (probably legitimate) axe to grind but are doing so in the wrong instance.

BUT ... when you have prosecutors completely ignoring mandated procedure for whatever reason(s), for the good of society the case simply must be dismissed.

The only shame is it would seem that they might not see court time for being the aforementioned welfare queens ... and you can't be tossed into jail for being a raging assbag ... otherwise we'd all be in a supermax facility.

From what I can tell, the "grazing rights" fees he gets are a huge financial windfall to him even if he had paid them. That's why he not only stopped paying but continued to use the lands because he was making huge money.

This just isn't a noble cause.

Yeah idk Ogie and Seacrest. I totally get the principle being argued for, but this guy and his ilk are not who I would want championing my cause.

The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.

If the feds walked into your home today and said we are claiming your land, you might raise hell. I think MANY here would go quietly because they would be afraid of what others might think of them.

If you understand the cause that is being stood for, then you understand far more than MANY others here.

What land was the government claiming?

If you understand the cause that is being stood for, then you understand far more than MANY others here.

If the feds walked into your home today and said we are claiming your land, you might raise hell. I think MANY here would go quietly because they would be afraid of what others might think of them.

If you understand the cause that is being stood for, then you understand far more than MANY others here.

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Next time Chicago tows my car for illegally parking on city property I'm going to sit under a tarp with a gun. #Patriotism

Please, educate the MANY.

I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?

Yeah idk Ogie and Seacrest. I totally get the principle being argued for, but this guy and his ilk are not who I would want championing my cause.

From what I can tell, the "grazing rights" fees he gets are a huge financial windfall to him even if he had paid them. That's why he not only stopped paying but continued to use the lands because he was making huge money.

This just isn't a noble cause.

Yup.

Cries the government are thieves and then defends thieves.

The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.

The Sagebrush Rebellion is about far more than just grazing rights. it is about the fact that the lands are controlled by bureaucrats who are thousands of miles away with no local input into how they are managed. Those lands should be managed by the states or counties as they are entities which have a vested interest in seeing that the management of those lands is handled in a manner which benefits the local population.