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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:18 pm 
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MajorKong wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
MajorKong wrote:
Not sure about WAR, but wRC+ is park, league, and era adjusted.



I know the definition of wRC+ suggest it is "league adjusted". But I'm not sure what that means exactly. It's based on a scale with 100 being average, similar to OPS+ or ERA+. But the 100 average is based on the league average for a given season, no? For example, if we were figuring wRC+ for the Oak Forest Little League, RPB's daughter may be at 165. That doesn't mean she was better than Ken Griffey.


No, if RPB's daughter had a wRC+ of 165 that would mean that her offense be 65% better than league average in the Oak Forest League that year regardless of the park they played in. If Griffey had a wRC+ of 165 that would mean that his offense was 65% better than Major League average in that year regardless of the park he played in. Obviously the level of competition in MLB is much greater than that of the OFL. That's why the stat is so relevant, because it contextualizes offensive performance. Hence a wRC+ of 165 in the Oak Forest League in 2014 would not be the same as a 165 wRC+ in the Major Leagues in 1993. And I checked fWAR is also context neutral.


I don't believe that's correct.

RPB's daughter 65% better than the Oak Forest Little League average.
Kris Bryant 65% better than the Pacific Coast League average.
Barry Bonds 65% better than the National League average.
Ken Griffey Jr. 65% better than the American League Average.

The National and American Leagues were far from equal during many of the years these guys played.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:36 pm 
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National League had better pitching and weaker lineups.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:50 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:



Plus Griffey would have thrown out Sid Bream

Griffey would've actually hit the fucking ball enough where it wouldn't have had to come down to him throwing Bream out. That fucking Bonds did jack shit for 3 fucking years in the NLCS for the Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Fucking Sid Bream.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Could be making this up but I think Steve Trachsel struck Bonds out twice with the bases loaded in the 98 tie-breaker game. That alone should keep him out.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Harry Carey my friend.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:19 pm 
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DannyB wrote:
Could be making this up but I think Steve Trachsel struck Bonds out twice with the bases loaded in the 98 tie-breaker game. That alone should keep him out.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes ... 9280.shtml

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:45 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
DannyB wrote:
Could be making this up but I think Steve Trachsel struck Bonds out twice with the bases loaded in the 98 tie-breaker game. That alone should keep him out.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes ... 9280.shtml


So I was making it up but he did come up twice with the bases loaded and only drove one in. And Trax did strike him out once. I was at that game and it might have been the best sporting event I've ever attended. When he grounded out weakly the crowd was as loud as I can ever remember.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:31 am 
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DannyB wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
DannyB wrote:
Could be making this up but I think Steve Trachsel struck Bonds out twice with the bases loaded in the 98 tie-breaker game. That alone should keep him out.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes ... 9280.shtml


So I was making it up but he did come up twice with the bases loaded and only drove one in. And Trax did strike him out once. I was at that game and it might have been the best sporting event I've ever attended. When he grounded out weakly the crowd was as loud as I can ever remember.

Didn't Trachsel just lull him to sleep, and underhand toss it in? I think I'm remembering that correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:32 am 
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MajorKong wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Image


Image


So because Bonds didn't throw out a guy in a big situation, that means that he's a lesser player than Griffey because Griffey beat a throw in a big situation?

Yes, that's exactly right.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank Thomas
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:44 am 
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Griffey also threw out Cuddyer in game 163 in 2008 8)

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