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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:40 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
"Roughly half a million U.S. teachers either move or leave the profession each year," reads a new report from the Alliance for Excellent Education, an advocacy group. And this kind of turnover comes at a steep cost, not only to students but to districts: up to $2.2 billion a year.

There were more than 3 million full-time teachers in 2013, according to the Department of Education, meaning nearly 15 percent of the workforce is moving or leaving every year. And, the study says, at-risk students suffer the most.

Nearly 20 percent of teachers at high-poverty schools leave every year, a rate 50 percent higher than at more affluent schools. That's one of every five teachers, gone by next September.

As for that $2.2 billion price tag, it's money largely spent on human resources, says Jason Amos, Vice President of Communications for the Alliance. That includes recruiting and processing new hires, along with money spent on induction, training and development.

The report points to a variety of reasons for the turnover, including low salaries and a lack of support for many teachers. Which helps to explain why those most likely to quit are also the least experienced: 40 to 50 percent of new teachers leave within their first five years on the job.
A lot of that seems to be teachers finding new jobs still in teaching, which is pretty common in all fields.

I doubt there is a mass exodus of teachers out of the profession. From everything I know, there are more teachers than jobs right now. They just want to go to the higher paying districts.


Was thinking this. Especially the possibility that young teachers take any job they can get then move on to a better situation in a couple years.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:43 am 
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40-50% of teachers quit the profession within the first 5 years, for a variety of reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:44 am 
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don't bother. they make up their own facts.

A third and final trend we discovered reveals a sobering side to this greening. Teacher attrition—teachers leaving teaching—is especially high in the first years on the job. Several studies, including our own analyses (Ingersoll, 2003; Ingersoll & Perda, in press), have estimated that between 40% and 50% of new teachers leave within the first five years of entry into teaching. Moreover, we have found that the attrition rates of first-year teachers have increased by about one-third in the past two decades. So, not only are there far more beginners in the teaching force, but these beginners are less likely to stay in teaching. In short, both the number and instability of beginning teachers have been increasing in recent years.

All organizations and occupations, of course, experience some loss of new entrants—either voluntarily because newcomers decide to not remain or involuntarily because employers deem them unsuitable. Moreover, some degree of employee turnover, job, and career change is normal, inevitable, and beneficial. However, teaching has relatively high turnover compared to many other occupations and professions, such as lawyers, engineers, architects, professors, pharmacists and nurses, and these departures are not cost free (Ingersoll & Perda, in press).

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:55 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
don't bother. they make up their own facts.
Not making up anything. Your first article was just useless since it included people changing jobs in the profession.

Looks like the turnover rate per year of teaching is about 4% higher than the average of other fields.

http://indianapublicmedia.org/stateimpact/2014/07/17/study-teacher-turnover-higher/

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That rate of attrition is relatively high compared to some other careers, according to a similar study released by the Consortium for Policy Research in Education. Teachers had significantly less turnover than secretaries, child care workers or correctional officers. On the other hand, teachers leave their jobs at about the same rate as police officers and considerably more often than nurses, lawyers and engineers.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:06 am 
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so right on par with other crappy jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:17 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
so right on par with other crappy jobs.
No. There are "better" jobs though.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:37 am 
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The conclusion of the report you cited:

Perhaps there is an irony in these changes. Historians tell us that when the public school system
was invented a century ago, the teaching force was transformed into a mass occupation that
was relatively low-paying, temporary, and designed predominantly for young, inexperienced
women, prior to starting their “real” career of child rearing (e.g., Lortie, 1975; Tyack, 1974).
Perhaps the changes we have traced represent not an entirely new face but a return to the old
face of the American teaching force.

A return to an old structure could have serious implications for the future status of elementary
and secondary teaching in the United States. Professionalization has long been a source of both
hope and frustration for teachers. Since early in the 20th century, educators have repeatedly
sought to upend the notion that teaching is akin to lower-skill industrial work where teachers are
interchangeable and easily replaced, and they have sought to promote the view that teaching
is highly complex work, requiring specialized knowledge and skills, and deserving of the same
status as traditional professions, like law, medicine, engineering, and academia. These efforts
to enhance the professional status of teaching have also long met with limited success. And if
teaching becomes an even larger, lower-paying line of work, predominantly employing young,
inexperienced women, who stay for limited periods, it does not suggest optimism for the
aspirations to promote the image of teaching as a respected profession.


At the same time, these possible future trajectories, and similarities between the contemporary
transformation of the teaching force and its previous incarnation, are strictly speculative on our
part. Nothing in our data analyses so far can be considered conclusive evidence that the teaching
force is, or will be, “better” or “worse” in one way or another. As we indicated at the beginning
of this report, thus far our objective has been exploratory and suggestive. At this point we have
more questions than answers.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:43 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The conclusion of the report you cited:

Perhaps there is an irony in these changes. Historians tell us that when the public school system
was invented a century ago, the teaching force was transformed into a mass occupation that
was relatively low-paying, temporary, and designed predominantly for young, inexperienced
women, prior to starting their “real” career of child rearing (e.g., Lortie, 1975; Tyack, 1974).
Perhaps the changes we have traced represent not an entirely new face but a return to the old
face of the American teaching force.

A return to an old structure could have serious implications for the future status of elementary
and secondary teaching in the United States. Professionalization has long been a source of both
hope and frustration for teachers. Since early in the 20th century, educators have repeatedly
sought to upend the notion that teaching is akin to lower-skill industrial work where teachers are
interchangeable and easily replaced, and they have sought to promote the view that teaching
is highly complex work, requiring specialized knowledge and skills, and deserving of the same
status as traditional professions, like law, medicine, engineering, and academia. These efforts
to enhance the professional status of teaching have also long met with limited success. And if
teaching becomes an even larger, lower-paying line of work, predominantly employing young,
inexperienced women, who stay for limited periods, it does not suggest optimism for the
aspirations to promote the image of teaching as a respected profession.


At the same time, these possible future trajectories, and similarities between the contemporary
transformation of the teaching force and its previous incarnation, are strictly speculative on our
part. Nothing in our data analyses so far can be considered conclusive evidence that the teaching
force is, or will be, “better” or “worse” in one way or another. As we indicated at the beginning
of this report, thus far our objective has been exploratory and suggestive. At this point we have
more questions than answers.
As I said, there are "better" jobs out there, and there are many jobs that are worse. It falls right in the middle.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:46 am 
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if being better than day-care workers and prison guards counts as in the middle, I guess so. :lol:

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