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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:16 pm 
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It always amazes me how everyone either thinks teachers have it so easy and barely work or they think that teachers spend massive amounts of time and go to superhuman efforts and basically exist as eat. teach. sleep. repeat.

I'm sure it has positives and negatives just like any other profession and ultimately it's a good secure job that people are very eager to do.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:18 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Same reason people hated leave no child behind.



This is one of the reasons that folks are wary of it. And they should be.

There is no cost analysis for the program. More unfunded mandates from the feds.

The claims of higher standards are just that. Claims. Removing classic literature from high school English classes is hardly a step toward increased standards.

Big business gets big profits from the CC set up. Lobbyists win again.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm sure it has positives and negatives just like any other profession and ultimately it's a good secure job that people are very eager to do.


Until they've done it.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:21 pm 
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The system was fine when we were kids when they weren't wasting weeks of every school year testing the shit out of us and even more weeks "teaching to the test". The people who benefit from testing bloat are the testing companies and not the kids. They're there to make profits, not help education. At least the kids can learn that capitalism is more important than learning.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Mandate from the feds eh? Well you need the Myth vs. Facts treatment then.



Myths vs. Facts

Successful implementation of the Common Core State Standards requires parents, educators, policymakers, and other stakeholders to have the facts about what the standards are and what they are not. The following myths and facts aim to address common misconceptions about the development, intent, content, and implementation of the standards.
Myths About Content and Quality: General

Myth: Adopting common standards means bringing all states’ standards down to the lowest common denominator. This means that states with high standards are actually taking a step backwards by adopting the Common Core.

Fact: The standards are designed to build upon the most advanced current thinking about preparing all students for success in college, career, and life. This will result in moving even the best state standards to the next level. In fact, since this work began, there has been an explicit agreement that no state would lower its standards. The standards were informed by the best in the country, the highest international standards, and evidence and expertise about educational outcomes. We need college- and career-ready standards because even in high‐performing states, students are graduating and passing all the required tests but still need remediation in their postsecondary work.

Myth: The Common Core State Standards are not internationally benchmarked.

Fact: Standards from top-performing countries played a significant role in the development of the math and English language arts/literacy standards. In fact, the college- and career-ready standards provide an appendix listing the evidence that was consulted in drafting the standards, including the international standards that were consulted in the development process.

Myth: The standards only include skills and do not address the importance of content knowledge.

Fact: The standards recognize that both content and skills are important.

The English language arts standards require certain critical content for all students, including classic myths and stories from around the world, America’s founding documents, foundational American literature, and Shakespeare. Appropriately, the remaining crucial decisions about what content should be taught are made at the state and local levels. In addition to content coverage, the standards require that students systematically acquire knowledge in literature and other disciplines through reading, writing, speaking, and listening.

The mathematics standards lay a solid foundation in whole numbers, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, and decimals. Taken together, these elements support a student’s ability to learn and apply more demanding math concepts and procedures. The middle school and high school standards call on students to practice applying mathematical ways of thinking to real-world issues and challenges. They prepare students to think and reason mathematically. The standards set a rigorous definition of college and career readiness not by piling topic upon topic, but by demanding that students develop a depth of understanding and ability to apply mathematics to novel situations, as college students and employees regularly do.
Myths About Content and Quality: Math

Myth: The standards do not prepare or require students to learn algebra in the 8th grade, as many states’ current standards do.

Fact: The standards do accommodate and prepare students for Algebra 1 in 8th grade by including the prerequisites for this course in grades K‐7. Students who master the K‐7 material will be able to take Algebra 1 in 8th grade. At the same time, grade 8 standards also include rigorous algebra and will transition students effectively into a full Algebra 1 course.

Myth: Key math topics are missing or appear in the wrong grade.

Fact: The mathematical progressions presented in the Common Core State Standards are coherent and based on evidence.

Part of the problem with having different sets of state standards in mathematics is that different states cover different topics at different grade levels. Coming to a consensus guarantees that, from the viewpoint of any given state, topics will move up or down in the grade level sequence. What is important to keep in mind is that the progression in the Common Core State Standards is mathematically coherent and leads to college and career readiness at an internationally competitive level.
Myths About Content and Quality: English Language Arts/Literacy

Myth: The standards are just vague descriptions of skills and do not include a reading list or any other reference to content.

Fact: The standards do include sample texts that demonstrate the level of text complexity appropriate for the grade level and compatible with the learning demands set out in the standards. The exemplars of high-quality texts at each grade level provide a rich set of possibilities and have been very well received. This provides a reference point for teachers when selecting their texts, along with the flexibility to make their own decisions about what texts to use.

Myth: English teachers will be asked to teach science and social studies reading materials.

Fact: With the ELA standards, English teachers will still teach their students literature as well as literary nonfiction. However, because college and career readiness overwhelmingly focuses on complex texts outside of literature, these standards also ensure students are being prepared to read, write, and research across the curriculum, including in history and science. These goals can be achieved by ensuring that teachers in other disciplines are also focusing on reading and writing to build knowledge within their subject areas.

Myth: The standards do not have enough emphasis on fiction/literature.

Fact: The Common Core requires certain critical content for all students, including classic myths and stories from around the world, America’s founding documents, foundational American literature, and Shakespeare. Appropriately, the remaining crucial decisions about what content should be taught are made at the state and local levels. The standards require that a portion of what is read in high school should be informational text, yet the bulk of this portion will be accounted for in non-ELA disciplines that do not frequently use fictional texts. This means that stories, drama, poetry, and other literature account for the majority of reading that students will do in their ELA classes. In addition to content coverage, the standards require that students systematically acquire knowledge in literature and other disciplines through reading, writing, speaking, and listening.
Myths About Process

Myth: No teachers were involved in writing the standards.

Fact: The Common Core drafting process relied on teachers and standards experts from across the country. In addition, many state experts came together to create the most thoughtful and transparent process of standard setting. This was only made possible by many states working together.

Myth: The standards are not based on research or evidence.

Fact: The standards have made careful use of a large and growing body of evidence. The evidence base includes scholarly research, surveys on what skills are required of students entering college and workforce training programs, assessment data identifying college‐ and career‐ready performance, and comparisons to standards from high‐performing states and nations.

In English language arts, the standards build on the firm foundation of the National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) frameworks in reading and writing, which draw on extensive scholarly research and evidence.

In mathematics, the standards draw on conclusions from the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) and other studies of high‐performing countries that found the traditional U.S. mathematics curriculum needed to become substantially more coherent and focused in order to improve student achievement, addressing the problem of a curriculum that is “a mile wide and an inch deep.”
Myths About Implementation

Myth: The standards tell teachers what to teach.

Fact: Teachers know best about what works in the classroom. That is why these standards establish what students need to learn but do not dictate how teachers should teach. Instead, schools and teachers will decide how best to help students reach the standards.

Myth: Teachers will be left to implement the standards without any support or guidance.

Fact: Decisions on how to implement the standards are made at the state and local levels. As such, states and localities are taking different approaches to implementing the standards and providing their teachers with the supports they need to help students successfully reach the standards. To learn how states are supporting teachers and implementing their new standards, visit the Standards in Your State section for a map linking to the state-specific implementation page.

Myth: The standards will be implemented through No Child Left Behind (NCLB), signifying that the federal government will be leading them.

Fact: The Common Core is a state‐led effort that is not part of No Child Left Behind or any other federal initiative. The federal government played no role in the development of the Common Core. State adoption of the standards is in no way mandatory. States began the work to create clear, consistent standards before the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which provided funding for the Race to the Top grant program. It also began before the Elementary and Secondary Education Act blueprint was released, because this work is being driven by the needs of the states, not the federal government. Learn more about the development process here.

Myth: The Common Core State Standards were adopted by states as part of the Race to the Top grant program.

Fact: Recognizing the strength of having high standards for all students, the federal government gave competitive advantage to Race to the Top applicants that demonstrated that they had or planned to adopt college- and career-ready standards for all students. The program did not specify the Common Core or prevent states from creating their own, separate college- and career-ready standards. States and territories voluntarily chose to adopt the Common Core to prepare their students for college, career, and life. Many states that were not chosen for Race to the Top grants continue to implement the Common Core.

Myth: These standards amount to a national curriculum for our schools.

Fact: The Common Core is not a curriculum. It is a clear set of shared goals and expectations for what knowledge and skills will help our students succeed. Local teachers, principals, superintendents, and others will decide how the standards are to be met. Teachers will continue to devise lesson plans and tailor instruction to the individual needs of the students in their classrooms.

Myth: The federal government will take over ownership of the Common Core State Standards initiative.

Fact: The federal government will not govern the Common Core State Standards. The Common Core was and will remain a state-led effort. The NGA Center and CCSSO are committed to developing a long-term governance structure with leadership from governors, chief state school officers, and other state policymakers to ensure the quality of the Common Core and that teachers and principals have a strong voice in the future of the standards. States and local school districts will drive implementation of the Common Core.

Myth: The Common Core State Standards will result in a national database of private student information.

Fact: There are no data collection requirements for states adopting the standards. Standards define expectations for what students should know and be able to do by the end of each grade. Implementing the Common Core State Standards does not require data collection. The means of assessing students and the use of the data that result from those assessments are up to the discretion of each state and are separate and unique from the Common Core.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
it does not impact my kids at all. They get that great private school education.


I had three years of private school. All I do is work for a public relations agency and crack jokes on the internet. Some of my classmates turned out even worse than I did. One of them invented the internet as we know it and then killed himself.


And I bet folks have stories about a poor kid from Chicago who attended CPS and made it big. But it is the aggregate numbers that are the problem. CPS has about a 50% high school drop out rate. My children's school places 100% of the graduates into college. It is not some exclusive boarding school as many of the kids come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Sure, maybe some kid won't go to college this year, but the vast majority end up successful. It's not about individual antidotes, but the collective results of the system. And they are bad.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:53 pm 
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It would be cool if some of the educators that are on the board would weigh in with their thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm sure it has positives and negatives just like any other profession and ultimately it's a good secure job that people are very eager to do.


Until they've done it.
Most people hate their jobs eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:59 pm 
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Denis is doing work up in here like a atom bomb.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:31 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Denis is doing work up in here like a atom bomb.



Copying and pasting info from sources that aren't cited is killing it?

I'll ask again.

Who is paying for this to be implemented?

Why are important facets of English being reduced?

Where were these standards tested in any meaningful place before being implemented?

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:03 pm 
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I posted a link, so you can see that source. The article is from this week's issue of the Economist. The myths vs facts is from the faqs of the common core website.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:16 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I posted a link, so you can see that source. The article is from this week's issue of the Economist. The myths vs facts is from the faqs of the common core website.



You can't win. I want change. Oh no, don't change that. It is a blessing and a curse in our national fabric now.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:19 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Denis is doing work up in here like a atom bomb.


The misuse of a/an in a thread dedicated to education, is glorious.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Denis is doing work up in here like a atom bomb.


The misuse of a/an in a thread dedicated to education, is glorious.



Nice. Nitpickers are back. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:20 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I posted a link, so you can see that source. The article is from this week's issue of the Economist. The myths vs facts is from the faqs of the common core website.



You can't win. I want change. Oh no, don't change that. It is a blessing and a curse in our national fabric now.



This isn't change.

It's a national program, sold as being done by Governor's, that folks want to claim as being better when it has never been tested first anywhere before being implemented.

No wonder science isn't a part of the Core.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:24 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
pittmike wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I posted a link, so you can see that source. The article is from this week's issue of the Economist. The myths vs facts is from the faqs of the common core website.



You can't win. I want change. Oh no, don't change that. It is a blessing and a curse in our national fabric now.



This isn't change.

It's a national program, sold as being done by Governor's, that folks want to claim as being better when it has never been tested first anywhere before being implemented.

No wonder science isn't a part of the Core.


I don't get your argument with me? I am not either common core or not. I am simply saying change of some sort is needed. And it must/should be measurable in order to avoid the bs smoke screens we have experienced in the past. So as was asked to you several times in this thread what is your solution...... We all still wait.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:44 pm 
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Mike, no worries. High standards have been tested to much success in MA. That was my first link. Subsequently, FL followed MA's lead with a lots of improvements. There is nothing federal about common core. Each state elects to adopt them. Amazing that this is controversial, but that is the state of America. There isn't any cost. You simply take the current standards and implement the new ones.

I have learned that Ted Cruz types oppose everything without offering real solutions. The teachers associations only solution is to throw more money at a broken system. Meanwhile, kids suffer. I love the idea of trying something new.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:00 pm 
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Well Dman maybe it will get better for or grandkids.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:02 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
pittmike wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I posted a link, so you can see that source. The article is from this week's issue of the Economist. The myths vs facts is from the faqs of the common core website.



You can't win. I want change. Oh no, don't change that. It is a blessing and a curse in our national fabric now.



This isn't change.

It's a national program, sold as being done by Governor's, that folks want to claim as being better when it has never been tested first anywhere before being implemented.

No wonder science isn't a part of the Core.


I don't get your argument with me? I am not either common core or not. I am simply saying change of some sort is needed. And it must/should be measurable in order to avoid the bs smoke screens we have experienced in the past. So as was asked to you several times in this thread what is your solution...... We all still wait.



The issue isn't one of standards.

When parents take an active role in the education of their kids, they are more successful.

No government program can change that fact.

I do find the board Libertarians defense of government being overly involved in something else, more than mildly amusing though.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:07 pm 
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Ok I'll bite on that. If my tax money is going to go towards public schools, then yes I want there to be high standards.

If you want what I would do, then here it is. I would close every public school in this country and move toward a charter school model New Oreleans style. The involvement of government in education has been a race to the bottom. It serves very few students well.

States already have standards. Common Core is mainly about setting high standards created by educators. It's not some government takeover of education.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
The system was fine when we were kids when they weren't wasting weeks of every school year testing the shit out of us and even more weeks "teaching to the test". The people who benefit from testing bloat are the testing companies and not the kids. They're there to make profits, not help education. At least the kids can learn that capitalism is more important than learning.


I think this is a great point.

Teachers have a really tough job especially now. I think it's crazy to hold them to some of the standards they do. Lots of parent bullshit, kid bullshit, and administrative bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:13 pm 
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I find it interesting it is conservatives against Common Core. The most liberal teachers I know are constantly bashing it on social media.

In my opinion, Common Core will go away for two reasons.

1. It will take at least a decade to see true results. Kids have to start with this in Prek and work through the system. That will never happen.

2. Parents were not taught the way Common Core based books teach. If parents can't help their children at home, they will revolt against the curriculum.

If you want to improve scores in lower income kids, put more funding into Prek and Kindergarten Programs. Make Prek and Kindergarten mandatory for students in Illinois. The early age you can get the kids into the classroom, it can help combat the parents who either can't or wont help their children learn to read and write.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:14 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
In my opinion, Common Core will go away for two reasons.

1. They all go away. This is just the latest thing.
2. See #1

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:15 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
The system was fine when we were kids when they weren't wasting weeks of every school year testing the shit out of us and even more weeks "teaching to the test". The people who benefit from testing bloat are the testing companies and not the kids. They're there to make profits, not help education. At least the kids can learn that capitalism is more important than learning.


I think this is a great point.

Teachers have a really tough job especially now. I think it's crazy to hold them to some of the standards they do. Lots of parent bullshit, kid bullshit, and administrative bullshit.



You're right. I hope teachers at public schools just stay home. It makes life easier for my kids to get ahead.

My God we are a country of such low expectations. But we are good at handing out trophies.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:16 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
If you want to improve scores in lower income kids, put more funding into Prek and Kindergarten Programs. Make Prek and Kindergarten mandatory for students in Illinois. The early age you can get the kids into the classroom, it can help combat the parents who either can't or wont help their children learn to read and write.

100% agree, except I would replace "scores" with "education". And replace "lower income" with "all", but low income/at-risk desperately need it.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:17 pm 
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Conns, lots of research says preK is very important. I am on board for that. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Conservatives are a sad lot now, and that's why I tend to refer to myself as a Libertarian.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:17 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
You're right. I hope teachers at public schools just stay home. It makes life easier for my kids to get ahead.

My God we are a country of such low expectations. But we are good at handing out trophies.


That's ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:18 pm 
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spanky wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
In my opinion, Common Core will go away for two reasons.

1. They all go away. This is just the latest thing.
2. See #1



Spanky has it. I want change. Do not change that.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:21 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
The system was fine when we were kids when they weren't wasting weeks of every school year testing the shit out of us and even more weeks "teaching to the test". The people who benefit from testing bloat are the testing companies and not the kids. They're there to make profits, not help education. At least the kids can learn that capitalism is more important than learning.


I think this is a great point.

Teachers have a really tough job especially now. I think it's crazy to hold them to some of the standards they do. Lots of parent bullshit, kid bullshit, and administrative bullshit.


Now we are actually talking about problems in education that need addressing.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 39754
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pizza_Place: giordanos
I do not understand at all how people want a status quo that yields crap. Oh we blame the disparity or the property tax system. Or some are disadvantaged so we give them free lunch and breakfast. Or we have charter schools for the gifted which equals Bernstein's connected kids not the identified geniuses.

What is never changed? The base model.

I worked closely in a German/French/Swiss company for more than 15 years and have seen the difference. None of you want to hear it. But I promise you the solution is not throwing more money at teachers and their unions.

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