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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:00 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
denisdman wrote:

Feel free to share your ideas....

We all know that is not going to happen.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:05 am 
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Mr. Belvidere wrote:
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The average parent wouldn't know the difference between Common Core and common ground.


A lot of those average parents sure hate it and they dont know why.


I'm not a huge fan and I know why.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:06 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Same reason people hated leave no child behind.


What?


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:09 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Same reason people hated leave no child behind.


What?

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 am 
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denisdman wrote:
[

Except that the problem told you the ratio was 1.5x. In your example, the ratio is 0.5x.


Ha. I didn't even read that. just expecting a trick question.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:30 am 
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denisdman wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Don't they have calculators and pc programs for all this these days?



My entire point was that the exam tests understanding, not memorization. That question is merely to test your understanding of how leverage works. In financial circles, operating and financial leverage are key concepts. If a business scales well, it exhibits positive operating leverage. A 5% increase in sales will result in a larger increase in net income of say 10%. The opposite also occurs, which is where businesses run into problems. As sales fall, earnings fall much faster. It is why companies take such extreme cost cutting measures when they have a small decline in sales.



I was directing at CH that mentioned not memorizing tables. And later Hatchets issues with ratios. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:33 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I was directing at CH that mentioned not memorizing tables. And later Hatchets issues with ratios. :lol:


I had calculators, too, but I'm glad my 2nd grade teacher taught me to multiply. Good god y'all.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:35 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I was directing at CH that mentioned not memorizing tables. And later Hatchets issues with ratios. :lol:


I had calculators, too, but I'm glad my 2nd grade teacher taught me to multiply. Good god y'all.



Me too and my kids two still in HS did. I find it easier to think in my head when doing stuff. But really its is more important in the long run to know why you are doing some form of math and how rather than insisting not to use a calc.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:55 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I was directing at CH that mentioned not memorizing tables. And later Hatchets issues with ratios. :lol:


I had calculators, too, but I'm glad my 2nd grade teacher taught me to multiply. Good god y'all.



Interesting to watch people try to figure out a 15% or 20% tip on a restaurant bill.

One of my favorites though is when you give a clerk (example) $23 for a purchase that is $12 and change. They hand you back the three singles with a confused look. You tell the clerk you don't want a bunch more singles in your wallet. Then you say, just type $23 into your register. When the change pops up $10 and some coins, then they realize why you gave them $23.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:14 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
sinicalypse wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I have been a big supporter of Common Core. The Conservatives that oppose it are idiots who think this is something being mandated by the Federal Government. It is completely elective/voluntary by the states. The standards were developed by the proper set of individuals.


isn't common core the newschool curriculum that's supposed to turn you gay?



In any case, the teachers unions and the conservatives who hate common core need to start with this simple fact: the system is broken. Once you state the obvious, then we move on with how best to fix it. I am a big fan of local control, but it's not working. There are too many districts that are failing the students, CPS for one. Everything I have read is that having high, meaningful standards is the best way to improve education.



Your premise of the system being broken does not mean that Common Core is the answer to that issue. Because it's not.

CPS students face challenges just getting to school that have a far more profound impact on their ability to learn. And Common Core does not, and can not address that.

You state that CC has high standards. Compared to what?

Everything you have read? Please, share what you have read.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Mr. Belvidere wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The average parent wouldn't know the difference between Common Core and common ground.


A lot of those average parents sure hate it and they dont know why.


I'm not a huge fan and I know why.



You are not average Spaulding.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:22 pm 
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I shared what I have read in the 7th post of this thread. It is a prime example of how high standards do in fact improve outcomes. But I'll re-post that link here:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/ ... s-can-work


A couple of highlights in case you don't bother to click on the link the second time I post it, and funny that critics contend the Common Core standards are TOO HIGH. You still got nothing over this idiot as you called me.

"The success of the Massachusetts approach has important implications, especially as states roll out the new Common Core standards – academic goals for what students should be able to do in reading and math at each grade level to ensure high school students graduate ready for the demands of higher education and the 21st century workforce. Inspired in part by the Massachusetts experience, the Common Core standards were developed by governors and state education chiefs, and today more than forty states, including Massachusetts, have adopted these deeply rigorous academic expectations for students.

Yet, despite the success of Massachusetts and the nation's continued woeful scores on international assessments, some critics have recently argued that the state-led Common Core effort is a Washington-led takeover of education. Other critics contend that the standards of the Common Core are too high and that they will spark even more testing in our schools. A few weeks ago, some parents in Arkansas and Louisiana even kept their children home to protest the new standards."

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:26 pm 
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Here's why people are squealing. Teachers don't what to be held to the same standards as private sector employees. They don't want to be measured. They don't want to be subject to at will employment (love that tenure). They don't want to work five days a week for 52 weeks out of the year. They don't want a full eight hours of teaching per day.

Luckily, the charter school movement is blowing their doors off. You see how hard they are fighting in NYC, and the parents are smart enough to know that these charters are a huge improvement over the status quo.

So critics will do everything to fight any changes to the system. "It's not broken. Just give us more money."

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:28 pm 
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I fail to see the rationale still that this is bad. Why do parents keep their kids home in protest? Common Core or any high standards you can come up with are a measuring stick as well as something to strive for and make children better off in the end. If a child or a whole school of children cannot do it then it is a place to put more effort by adults. It is not a reason to protest and not use standards.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Posted same time Denis.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:31 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
They don't want to work five days a week for 52 weeks out of the year. They don't want a full eight hours of teaching per day.

Oh Jesus, this shit?

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:33 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I fail to see the rationale still that this is bad. Why do parents keep their kids home in protest? Common Core or any high standards you can come up with are a measuring stick as well as something to strive for and make children better off in the end. If a child or a whole school of children cannot do it then it is a place to put more effort by adults. It is not a reason to protest and not use standards.


Pretty much dead on Mike. I am not saying it's perfect, but we all (maybe most is a better word) know the current system is failing a good percentage of the population. I am on board with trying a lot of new stuff. And with the success MA has had, I am all in for that.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:34 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Here's why people are squealing. Teachers don't what to be held to the same standards as private sector employees. They don't want to be measured. They don't want to be subject to at will employment (love that tenure). They don't want to work five days a week for 52 weeks out of the year. They don't want a full eight hours of teaching per day.

Or they don't want to be held to standards they can only minimally impact. Maybe if they really cared about the children they'd drive around and feed them all breakfast before school. Last I checked the biggest correlation to test scores was parent's education level and income. Let's hold the parents to the same standards as private sector employees instead. If you're poor and uneducated you're fired.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
They don't want to work five days a week for 52 weeks out of the year. They don't want a full eight hours of teaching per day.

Oh Jesus, this shit?



Regardless of your stance it is not preposterous to think that a group (teachers) that have a sweetheart setup collectively bargained with summers off might not want to change that.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:36 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
They don't want to work five days a week for 52 weeks out of the year. They don't want a full eight hours of teaching per day.

Oh Jesus, this shit?



Regardless of your stance it is not preposterous to think that a group (teachers) that have a sweetheart setup collectively bargained with summers off might not want to change that.


They don't get paid for working 52 weeks a year, so yes it's preposterous.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:40 pm 
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At any moment that a teacher is not teaching a class, that teacher is sitting around with his thumb up his or her ass, leeching off the 52-week-working private sector. truefax

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:43 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
At any moment that a teacher is not teaching a class, that teacher is sitting around with his thumb up his or her ass, leeching off the 52-week-working private sector. truefax

Also most teachers I know are psychos who work way more than 40 hours a week. My wife's a school librarian and she gets weird looks when she actually leaves on time. "What about the children!"


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Band/orchestra/choir directors put in tons of hours, many of them unpaid, and they're the ones the "reformers" always want to fire first!

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:51 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Band/orchestra/choir directors put in tons of hours, many of them unpaid, and they're the ones the "reformers" always want to fire first!

They run a ton of stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:51 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Band/orchestra/choir directors put in tons of hours, many of them unpaid, and they're the ones the "reformers" always want to fire first!

They run a ton of stuff.

Pit orchestra? That's a thing.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Like I said, defenders of the status quo are going to fight hard.


Income correlates to child school performance in large part because smart people make more money and have higher IQ children. I absolutely agree that parents have a huge role in child development. I think this article lays it out well. There's good stuff in there if you stick with the whole article. From the Economist this week.


America’s elite
An hereditary meritocracy
The children of the rich and powerful are increasingly well suited to earning wealth and power themselves. That’s a problem
Jan 24th 2015 | WASHINGTON, DC | From the print edition

“MY BIG fear,” says Paul Ryan, an influential Republican congressman from Wisconsin, is that America is losing sight of the notion that “the condition of your birth does not determine the outcome of your life.” “Opportunity,” according to Elizabeth Warren, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, “is slipping away.” Marco Rubio, a Republican senator from Florida, thinks that “each element” of the sequence that leads to success “is eroding in our country.” “Of course you have to work hard, of course you have to take responsibility,” says Hillary Clinton, a former first lady, senator and secretary of state, “but we are making it so difficult for people who do those things to feel that they are going to achieve the American dream.” When discussing the chances of ordinary Americans rising to the top, politicians who agree about little else sound remarkably similar.

Before the word meritocracy was coined by Michael Young, a British sociologist and institutional entrepreneur, in the 1950s there was a different name for the notion that power, success and wealth should be distributed according to talent and diligence, rather than by accident of birth: American. For sure, America has always had rich and powerful families, from the floor of the Senate to the boardrooms of the steel industry. But it has also held more fervently than any other country the belief that all comers can penetrate that elite as long as they have talent, perseverance and gumption. At times when that has not been the case Americans have responded with authentic outrage, surmising that the people at the top are, as Nick Carraway said, “a rotten crowd”, with bootlegging Gatsby better than the whole damn bunch put together.

Today’s elite is a long way from the rotten lot of West Egg. Compared to those of days past it is by and large more talented, better schooled, harder working (and more fabulously remunerated) and more diligent in its parental duties. It is not a place where one easily gets by on birth or connections alone. At the same time it is widely seen as increasingly hard to get into.

Some self-perpetuation by elites is unavoidable; the children of America’s top dogs benefit from nepotism just as those in all other societies do. But something else is now afoot. More than ever before, America’s elite is producing children who not only get ahead, but deserve to do so: they meet the standards of meritocracy better than their peers, and are thus worthy of the status they inherit.

It takes two

This is partly the result of various admirable aspects of American society: the willingness of people to give money and time to their children’s schools; a reluctance to impose a uniform model of education across the country; competition between universities to build the most lavish facilities. Such traits are hard to object to, and even if one does object they are yet harder to do anything about. In aggregate, though, they increase the chances of wealthy parents passing advantage on to their children. In the long run that could change the way the country works, the way it thinks about itself, and the way that people elsewhere judge its claim to be an exceptional beacon of opportunity.

Part of the change is due to the increased opportunities for education and employment won by American women in the twentieth century. A larger pool of women enjoying academic and professional success, or at least showing early signs of doing so, has made it easier for pairs of young adults who will both excel to get together. Between 1960 and 2005 the share of men with university degrees who married women with university degrees nearly doubled, from 25% to 48%, and the change shows no sign of going into reverse.

Assortative mating of this sort seems likely, on average, to reinforce the traits that bring the couple together. Though genes play a role in the variation of intelligence from person to person, this is not a crude genetic determinism. People tend to encourage in their children what they value in themselves and their partners. Thus people bought together by their education and status will typically deem such things important and do more to bring them out in their children, both deliberately and by lived example—processes in which nature and nurture are more than likely to work hand in hand.

Not only do graduate couples tend to value education; they also tend to have money to spend on it. And though the best predictor of an American child’s success in school has long been the parents’ educational level—a factor which graduates are already ahead on, by defintition—money is an increasingly important factor. According to Sean Reardon of Stanford the past decades have seen a growing correlation between parental income and children’s test scores. Sort the students who took the SAT, a test for college applicants, in 2014 by parental income and the results get steadily better the further up the ladder you climb (see chart 1).

First, cultivate your kindergarten

Another factor is family stability. Wealthier and better educated American families tend to marry before having children, and like most married couples they split up less than unmarried ones. This correlates with various good outcomes for their children.

The educational benefits of being born to wealthy parents are already clear in toddlers (see article). Families which are used to and eager for success try to build on them at kindergarten. Competition for private kindergarten places among high-status New Yorkers is farcically intense. Jennifer Brozost of Peas, an educational consultancy, recommends that parents apply to 8-10 kindergartens, write “love letters” to their top three, and bone up on how to make the right impression when visiting. Some parents pay for sessions at which their children are coached on how to play in a way that pleases those in charge of admissions.

Once children enter the public school system—which about 90% of them do—the advantages of living in a well-off neighbourhood kick in. America is unusual in funding its public schools through property taxes. States have a floor price for the education of each child, but parents can vote to pay more local tax in order to top this up, and frequently do. Funding levels per pupil can vary by up to 50% across a state, says Mike McShane of the American Enterprise Institute, a think-tank.

Sometimes this results in poor students in cities that collect lots of property tax being better funded than the children of wealthier families in the suburbs. More often, though, the opposite is true. The result is that America is one of only three advanced countries that spends more on richer pupils than poor ones, according to the OECD (the other two are Turkey and Israel). And on top of spending on school, there is spending outside it: the gap between what rich and poor parents shell out for museum trips, music lessons, books and so on has been widening (see chart 2). In a world where lots of people do well on SATs, cultivating extra skills matters.

The opportunities for parental investment continue in higher education, which is ever more costly (see chart 3) but offers ever greater returns. Between 1979 and 2012 the income gap between the median family with college-educated parents and one with high-school educated parents grew four times greater than the headline-grabbing income gap between the top 1% of earners and the rest, according to David Autor of MIT, rising from $30,000 to $58,000.

Those whose parents have provided good schooling and good after-schooling have advantages already—but some get an extra one from institutions that discriminate in favour of the children of alumni. According to a survey by the Crimson, Harvard’s newspaper, 16% of the 2,023 who got in last year had at least one parent among the university’s alumni. Harvard says that legacy preference is only ever a tie breaker in admissions; but with 17 applicants for every place there can be a lot of ties.

All this and lacrosse too

Most of the country’s research universities and liberal arts colleges grant preferences to legacy students; the practice seems widespread at universities just below the top tier. The University of Pennsylvania is particularly friendly to the children of alumni, says Katherine Cohen of Ivywise, a firm with several ex-deans of admissions on its books which provides advice on getting children into the best schools. Though it is rare, stories still crop up of the parents of academically borderline students buying admission for their children with a generous bequest to a particular school.

The fierce competition between universities to build endowments makes doing such favours for alumni enticing. And there is a public-good argument for it: a student who comes with $1m attached can pay for financial aid for many others. But in practice this is not how the system works. While it is true that some elite universities are rich enough to give out a lot of financial support, people who can pay the full whack are still at the centre of the business model for many. Mitchell Stevens, a Stanford sociologist who spent a year working in the admissions office of an unnamed liberal arts college in the north-east, found that the candidate the system most prized was one who could pay full tuition and was just good enough to make one of the higher-profile sports teams but had a strong enough academic record not to eat into the annual allocation reserved for students whose brains work best when encased in a football helmet.

Combined with the long-running push for racial diversity on college campuses, this makes for an esoteric definition of merit. Men are slightly under-represented across college campuses; African-Americans are not, but can still benefit from some forms of affirmative action; and there is always a need for those who are good at sports. Poor whites and Asians get a bad deal from this kind of filtering. Though the Ivies all deny operating quotas to limit Asian students—the best performing group in SAT scores—the number admitted each year has fallen from its peak in 2008and stays strangely consistent both from year to year and between institutions. Caltech, a university which admits purely on academic ability, has more Asian students than other elite schools. It also has much less feared sports teams.

On graduation, many members of America’s future elite will head for the law firms, banks and consultancies where starting salaries are highest. Lauren Rivera of Kellogg School of Management interviewed 120 people charged with hiring in these sectors for a forthcoming book. She found that though they did not set out to recruit students from wealthy backgrounds, the companies had a penchant for graduates who had been to well-known universities and played varsity sports (lacrosse correlates with success particularly well). The result was a graduate intake that included people with skin of every shade but rarely anyone with parents who worked blue-collar jobs. “When we are asked to identify merit,” explains Ms Rivera, “we tend to find people like ourselves.”

Something similar has happened in corner offices of America’s biggest companies. As computing power has increased and clerical jobs have been automated, the distance between the shop floor and executive positions has increased. It was never common for people to start at the bottom and work their way to the top. Now it is close to impossible. Research by Nitin Nohria, the dean of Harvard Business School, and his colleagues has shown how in the second half of the 20th century a corporate elite where family networks and religion mattered most was replaced by one whose members required an MBA or similar qualification from a business school. This makes the managers better qualified. It also means they are the product of a serial filtering that has winnowed their numbers at school, college and work before they get their MBAs.

More than 50 years ago Michael Young warned that the incipient meritocracy to which he had given a name could be as narrow and pernicious, in its way, as aristocracies of old. In America some academics and thinkers on the left are coming to similar conclusions. Lani Guinier of Harvard speaks for many when she rails against the “testocracy” that now governs America. Once progressives saw academic testing as a way of breaking down old structures of privilege; there is now a growing sense that it simply serves to advantage those who have been schooled to excel in such situations. Heirs to Andrew Jackson on the right have their own worries about the self perpetuation of an American elite, but no desire at all to use government as a leveller. Both sides can agree that the blending of merit and inheritance is un-American. Neither has plausible ideas for what to do about it.

From the print edition: Briefing

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:59 pm 
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teaching is a fucking nighmare. I lasted all of 18 months before quitting. If it's such a plum job I suggest you do it yourself. You'd have to have a screw loose to put up with that shit.

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:01 pm 
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I did make like $10 as a beggar at LT's Madrigal Dinners that no one told me I was supposed to donate back to the department. I probably killed choir :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:06 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
teaching is a fucking nighmare. I lasted all of 18 months before quitting. If it's such a plum job I suggest you do it yourself. You'd have to have a screw loose to put up with that shit.


I am not saying it's an easy job. But we are entrusting our future generations to teachers, and the outcomes they are producing are not acceptable in my opinion. The parents are equally to blame. So here I am, a concerned parent, trying to do something about it. But you see no one wants the system to change as if everything is fine.

The sickest part is, viewing from my high horse, it does not impact my kids at all. They get that great private school education. They will most likely be fine having won the gene lottery as Bill Gates calls it. My concern is for our country and its competitiveness. Do it for the children. :)

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 Post subject: Re: John Kasich
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:10 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
it does not impact my kids at all. They get that great private school education.


I had three years of private school. All I do is work for a public relations agency and crack jokes on the internet. Some of my classmates turned out even worse than I did. One of them invented the internet as we know it and then killed himself.

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