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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Chus wrote:
8 team playoff. Power five conference winners are in. 3 at large teams. Done.


Seconded.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Chus wrote:
8 team playoff. Power five conference winners are in. 3 at large teams. Done.

I agree with this post from another site that elucidates the problems of just moving to 8 under the current system:
Quote:
8 team playoff would be fine, but would need a ton of restructuring of our current system in order to work.

8 would be so much worse than 4 this year and it's not even close.

Currently making a CCG is sometimes a prize (UGA and Miami had a chance to win their way into the field) and sometimes a penalty (OU and Clemson were already in the field, and would wish there were no CCGs as all they could do is lose their way out).

But, generally you'd always rather make the CCG than not. Now, you get lots of teams that are going to go 11-1, finish around ~5th or 6th and prefer to miss the CCG, which is lame. Granted, this was an issue last year with 4 when Ohio State got in by ducking the CCG, and might be again this year when Bama will do the same. But Bama is still sweating, whereas under 8 they'd have been more than happy to stay at home.


Furthermore, just like the move from 2 to 4, it makes some games much more exciting, and some games less exciting. However, the move from 2 to 4 almost exclusively added meaningful games (rarely is a team so dominant that a loss would boot them from the top-2 but not the top 4).

Moving from 4 to 8 makes a lot of games more exciting:
ND/Stanford, Stanford/USC now have major playoff implications, and TCU now has a real shot to win their way in.

However, WAY more games lose excitement:
SC/ND would not have felt like an elimination game
UGA losing to Auburn wouldn't have felt like that big of a deal
Bama could easily have shrugged off the Iron Bowl loss
Ohio State / Penn State would have lost a ton of luster at the time, although in retrospect would still have been just as important

And all the early season losses would not have felt as important. OU/OSU wouldn't be so tense. Cuse beating Clemson or ISU pulling upsets would've mattered, but not nearly as much.



This year, three teams have separated themselves from the pack, and don't deserve to be lumped with teams that got their doors blown off, played creampuff sched's etc. It's a concession that we have to let in one such team, but letting in five devalues the acomplishments of those 3.


In my ideal world, we'd either redo the entire thing, or literally change it year by year depending on how things shake out. Some years 4, some years 6, some years 8.

Though totally implausible, in my dream scenario, we'd look at this year and say "Ok, Bama/OSU/USC and UCF can have a 4 team playoff for the 4th spot"


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Chus wrote:
8 team playoff. Power five conference winners are in. 3 at large teams. Done.

Seems like such an easy solution. Which means it will take years to happen if ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:50 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Chus wrote:
8 team playoff. Power five conference winners are in. 3 at large teams. Done.

Seems like such an easy solution. Which means it will take years to happen if ever.

I think the biggest reason against this is the number of games. They don't want to add a game since the players are students. ("It's a one-season sport," Jim Delaney said.) Not saying I agree, but that's a big reason against the expansion.

Just two decades ago, they all played 11 regular season games with no conference championship. Now they have 12 regular season games, possibly a conference championship, and either a bowl or possibly two more playoff games.

I know it would costs schools a lot, but maybe go back to the 11 game regular season?


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:43 am 
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while bama doesn't seem to qualify, usc/osu/ucf certainly don't either. usc/osu both have losses that are embarassing. bama's 1 loss wasn't. ucf? seriously...it would be worse than when hawaii was freaking out about being left out and then getting beat by 40 by ga in a bowl game.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:51 am 
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Need to break football into 4 major conferences. The conference title games are the playoff play-in game.

Big 12 should be dismantled and Notre Dame forced into a conference.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:36 am 
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Northwestern got screwed. They will always get screwed in a popularity contest.

It would have been great to watch them and ND as appetizers to the big games on NYD.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 am 
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hnd wrote:
while bama doesn't seem to qualify, usc/osu/ucf certainly don't either. usc/osu both have losses that are embarassing. bama's 1 loss wasn't. ucf? seriously...it would be worse than when hawaii was freaking out about being left out and then getting beat by 40 by ga in a bowl game.

But USC and OSU also have quality wins. Alabama's best win is against a team that also lost to Troy. And like I said, if the 2 losses is an argument against OSU and USC compared to Alabama, then I still don't see how they have a case over UCF or even Wisconsin (which has a better quality single loss than Alabama).


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:56 pm 
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hnd wrote:
while bama doesn't seem to qualify, usc/osu/ucf certainly don't either. usc/osu both have losses that are embarassing. bama's 1 loss wasn't. ucf? seriously...it would be worse than when hawaii was freaking out about being left out and then getting beat by 40 by ga in a bowl game.


You can make similar arguments against the final four as well. Making the title somewhat meaningless this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:11 pm 
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I've found the football title to be somewhat meaningless for a while. I'm already bowled out and way more interested in the NFL playoffs by the time they finally get to their championship game

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:23 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
hnd wrote:
while bama doesn't seem to qualify, usc/osu/ucf certainly don't either. usc/osu both have losses that are embarassing. bama's 1 loss wasn't. ucf? seriously...it would be worse than when hawaii was freaking out about being left out and then getting beat by 40 by ga in a bowl game.

But USC and OSU also have quality wins. Alabama's best win is against a team that also lost to Troy. And like I said, if the 2 losses is an argument against OSU and USC compared to Alabama, then I still don't see how they have a case over UCF or even Wisconsin (which has a better quality single loss than Alabama).


fsu and lsu aren't cupcakes (fsu had their qb when bama trounced them)

usc only ran away from oregon st and once again, you don't get destroyed by a 7-5 team and think you are going to make the playoffs. i think the who they beat and who they lost to game is only played when its not clear cut. its pretty easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:29 pm 
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hnd wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
hnd wrote:
while bama doesn't seem to qualify, usc/osu/ucf certainly don't either. usc/osu both have losses that are embarassing. bama's 1 loss wasn't. ucf? seriously...it would be worse than when hawaii was freaking out about being left out and then getting beat by 40 by ga in a bowl game.

But USC and OSU also have quality wins. Alabama's best win is against a team that also lost to Troy. And like I said, if the 2 losses is an argument against OSU and USC compared to Alabama, then I still don't see how they have a case over UCF or even Wisconsin (which has a better quality single loss than Alabama).


fsu and lsu aren't cupcakes (fsu had their qb when bama trounced them)

usc only ran away from oregon st and once again, you don't get destroyed by a 7-5 team and think you are going to make the playoffs. i think the who they beat and who they lost to game is only played when its not clear cut. its pretty easy.

The only thing clear cut is that Alabama is held to a lower standard than everyone else. Alabama doesn't get credit for how good FSU could have been, because every single other team could play that card just as easily. LSU lost to Troy and a similarly overrated Mississippi State. The SEC was not good enough to warrant 2 teams this year, particularly one that played a schedule like Alabama did.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Northwestern got screwed. They will always get screwed in a popularity contest.

It would have been great to watch them and ND as appetizers to the big games on NYD.


The thought I heard a couple times yesterday on tv, because of the playoff, what are the rest of the bowl games, you can hope teams show up and play, the Fiesta and Cotton Bowl could be good games if they do, but there was some thought will they care and if you don't make the playoff is your season a disappointment now.

I will say you could hear that every year, who has the motivation, if Alabama didn't make it yesterday, would they have cared in whatever bowl game they went, I hope these teams care, could be some good games.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:33 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
hnd wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
hnd wrote:
while bama doesn't seem to qualify, usc/osu/ucf certainly don't either. usc/osu both have losses that are embarassing. bama's 1 loss wasn't. ucf? seriously...it would be worse than when hawaii was freaking out about being left out and then getting beat by 40 by ga in a bowl game.

But USC and OSU also have quality wins. Alabama's best win is against a team that also lost to Troy. And like I said, if the 2 losses is an argument against OSU and USC compared to Alabama, then I still don't see how they have a case over UCF or even Wisconsin (which has a better quality single loss than Alabama).


fsu and lsu aren't cupcakes (fsu had their qb when bama trounced them)

usc only ran away from oregon st and once again, you don't get destroyed by a 7-5 team and think you are going to make the playoffs. i think the who they beat and who they lost to game is only played when its not clear cut. its pretty easy.

The only thing clear cut is that Alabama is held to a lower standard than everyone else. Alabama doesn't get credit for how good FSU could have been, because every single other team could play that card just as easily. LSU lost to Troy and a similarly overrated Mississippi State. The SEC was not good enough to warrant 2 teams this year, particularly one that played a schedule like Alabama did.

Miss. State was pretty good, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I've found the football title to be somewhat meaningless for a while. I'm already bowled out and way more interested in the NFL playoffs by the time they finally get to their championship game

I like it and all, but it has that NFL playoff feel to it (and the NFL sucks), which goes against the first 100 years of college football. Has it made the college game better? I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:43 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Northwestern got screwed. They will always get screwed in a popularity contest.

It would have been great to watch them and ND as appetizers to the big games on NYD.

Shit game...but at least they'll get a ten-win season.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:52 pm 
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College bowl season has become one of my favorite times of the sports year.
Lots of good matchups and......some duds. I can't wait for next Saturday to get here though.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:39 am 
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spanky wrote:
College bowl season has become one of my favorite times of the sports year.
Lots of good matchups and......some duds. I can't wait for next Saturday to get here though.

Several years ago I got food poisoning at the Mexican place on 59 just south of Diehl in that mall... pork burrito -- my fault for ordering it, I suppose. Anyway, I am in a position where I feel awful and I eventually decide I am going to just sacrifice some towels so I don't have to live in the bathroom. It was something like December 19th or 20th, and I had bowl games to watch all day. It was awesome, given the circumstances. I've never enjoyed bowl season more than that day.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:24 am 
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newper wrote:
spanky wrote:
College bowl season has become one of my favorite times of the sports year.
Lots of good matchups and......some duds. I can't wait for next Saturday to get here though.

Several years ago I got food poisoning at the Mexican place on 59 just south of Diehl in that mall... pork burrito -- my fault for ordering it, I suppose. Anyway, I am in a position where I feel awful and I eventually decide I am going to just sacrifice some towels so I don't have to live in the bathroom. It was something like December 19th or 20th, and I had bowl games to watch all day. It was awesome, given the circumstances. I've never enjoyed bowl season more than that day.

I like that story because it has college football, weight loss, and diversity--all passions of mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:46 pm 
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tommy wrote:
newper wrote:
spanky wrote:
College bowl season has become one of my favorite times of the sports year.
Lots of good matchups and......some duds. I can't wait for next Saturday to get here though.

Several years ago I got food poisoning at the Mexican place on 59 just south of Diehl in that mall... pork burrito -- my fault for ordering it, I suppose. Anyway, I am in a position where I feel awful and I eventually decide I am going to just sacrifice some towels so I don't have to live in the bathroom. It was something like December 19th or 20th, and I had bowl games to watch all day. It was awesome, given the circumstances. I've never enjoyed bowl season more than that day.

I like that story because it has college football, weight loss, and diversity--all passions of mine.


The effort to turn that into a positive was awe-inspiring. Positively Kellyane Conway-esque :P :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:23 pm 
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I wasn't aware of the tension surrounding the Heisman Trophy between the Heisman Trust and past winners.


SI.com wrote:
Friction Between Past Winners and the Heisman Trust Casts Cloud Over Ceremony

There is, as usual, plenty of drama surrounding the announcement of this year’s Heisman Trophy winner. But this year, the question isn’t who it’s going to be, it’s who is—and is not—going to be in the audience at Saturday night’s ceremony.

This has nothing to do with the runaway favorite, Oklahoma senior quarterback Baker Mayfield. This is about disagreements between the Heisman Trust (the board that controls the award) and a growing group of winners past who don’t like the way the board does business and are concerned about the trophy’s future.

“The Heisman’s star is fading,” says Gary Beban, the UCLA quarterback who won the trophy in 1967. “We’ve been trying to work with this board for years and we’ve really gotten nowhere.”

In October, the former UCLA quarterback told the board that he’d register his dissent by being a no-show this year, including skipping events marking his own 50th anniversary. “I’m sad it’s come to this,” Beban told me. “I’ve always envisioned this as sort of a peak moment in the highlight film of my life.”

Making the decision to stay away has been emotional for Beban, something I know first hand: Gary is my father. For years, we’ve been talking about his feelings about the Trust as well as what’s been going on behind the scenes.

As I kid, I used to love going to the Heisman events. Back then, they were at the Downtown Athletic Club. Football legends were just all over the place. I’ll never forget Bo Jackson slapping me on the shoulder with a hand that felt as solid as a T-bone steak. When I was in high school, Earl Campbell asked me my waist size (it was 34") and proceeded to tell me that when he was playing pro, each one of his legs was a 34".

And guess what? Doug Flutie is not short! A 5'10" guy actually only looks short when he’s being chased around a football field by freakishly big human beings.

For the past few years, I’ve taken my children to the ceremonies, who love it as much as I did. When he’s my age, my son will probably still be talking about the time Robert Griffin III cheerfully hiked up the trousers of his tux to show him his Superman socks. Last year, when I made her laugh, my daughter lost her balance and fell over trying to hold her Heisman pose next to the new trophy.

This year, the kids are bummed but understanding about why Papa’s not going. And Dad won’t be the only former winner sitting this one out. Tim Brown, who took home the trophy in 1987 as a Notre Dame wide receiver, also won’t be in New York this weekend. “Unless there are changes, I have no plans to ever go again,” Brown told me. “It’s just too difficult and frustrating.”

A universally held opinion among winners I spoke to—even ones planning on attending this weekend, such as 1972’s Johnny Rodgers—is that there should be at least one winner on the board. “We want a seat at the table because the whole thing exists based on our images,” the former Nebraska running back said.

When I reached out to the Trust for comment about Dad, Brown, and the broader question of winner-board relations, I heard back from executive director Rob Whalen, who is not a board member. Whalen said in an email that it’s disappointing when one of the “Heisman family” is absent, adding that the Trust remains “steadfast in its commitment to protect the Trophy’s integrity and not allow it to be improperly commercialized for any purpose.”

The Heisman Trophy trust is registered as a 501(c)(3) educational charity. According to the Trust’s 2015 Federal Form 990 (the most recent available) the Trust distributed $1,731,494—not that much more than its operating expenses of $1,334,216—all while sitting on investments valued at more than $19 million.

That seeming stinginess just doesn’t sit well with many winners. One who asked not to be named said, “We want to know what’s going on. We’d like to have a say in how it’s managed. We don’t know how the board makes decisions.”

Another complaint is that the board has fallen behind the fast-changing culture of college sports and modern media. “The trophy has grown tremendously in the 45 years since I won,” Rodgers said. “It’s a business in itself. We need to be making big gains every year, you know? This board doesn’t have that kind of expertise. It was never set up to do that.”

Signs abound that the Heisman’s wattage has dimmed. Long gone are the days when sports legends like Yogi Berra and celebrities such as Ed Sullivan showed up at the ceremonies.

The television audience is shrinking too: The 2.64 million people who tuned in last year is believed to be the smallest Heisman audience ever for the trophy presentation on ESPN.

The way my dad and others see it is that the Heisman is the most famous individual award in college sports—perhaps all of sport—and the board isn’t doing enough to make it a force for good. “They’re mismanaging a unique legacy brand,” Dad said.

Referring to the long-running Heisman-themed Nissan television ad, he asked, “Why, for example, isn’t there an actual Heisman House on various college campuses, a place where student-athletes and kids in the area could get tutoring? Why aren’t we doing things like raising millions for research into brain trauma?”

“The trophy and the winners are totally underutilized,” another former winner lamented. “This thing could be doing so much more.”

Several discontented winners I spoke to also brought up the story of 1994 winner Rashaan Salaam, who, in apparent financial as well as emotional distress, committed suicide last December. They wish that somehow, the board and winners alike could have extended Salaam a helping hand. “It was just a week before the ceremony,” Brown said. “Imagine if he’d known he could call the Trust. Or that if the board had known and somehow let the rest of us know the man was struggling. We would’ve tried to help him ourselves. I’m just sad we didn’t know about it.”

There’s one other emotional issue in play this year, but it’s got nothing to do with the board: It’s a desire that the disagreements don’t somehow diminish the moment for “the kid”—the name Dad has long called the new winner. “I want all of us to be there to give him a hug, welcome him to the club, meet his family,” said Nebraska quarterback Eric Crouch, the 2001 winner. “To us, you know, that’s the best part. It should be something we all never want to miss.”

“It’s the baddest fraternity in the world, right?” Rodgers told me, laughing. “We only admit one guy a year.”

Out of 59 living recipients, just 22 were at last year’s events. Whalen says the Trust expects a higher number this year, but Brown doesn’t think that’s where this is headed. “The board says they don’t need us,” he said. “Well, if they keep losing guys, they’re going to see how that works out.”

Crouch agrees. He thinks the numbers will keep falling and interest keep fading. “We are just at a stalemate with the board,” the former Nebraska quarterback told me. “The way things are going, it’s not hard to imagine an award ceremony with no winners and no sponsors someday.”


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Army/Navy time!

The Iron Bowl/The Game/USC-UCLA I sometimes don't care about, but I have to watch this game every year.

Go Army! Beat Navy!!

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Been a couple really entertaining bowl games today. South Florida and Texas Tech. And now Army and San Diego St.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Army goes for 2 and the win!!! Love it. Great game

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:59 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Army goes for 2 and the win!!! Love it. Great game

Shocked.....thought SDSU would win this big....Army looked pretty solid.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:33 pm 
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THRILLED to have driven 5+ hours to see NIU crap the bed in embarrassing fashion today. Fire Rod Carey already....stupid Illinois financial aituation.

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Big Ten 1-0! With Purdue leading! Less fun than it sounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Boilers are bringing it tonight

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 Post subject: Re: Football 2017
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:24 pm 
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