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| National Power: Notre Dame thread http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=61934 |
Page 26 of 44 |
| Author: | Brick [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: Playing in a Natl title game, under any circumstances, makes you a Natl power, IMO Auburn, even with the win. Probably Oregon too.
Is there any team (besides ND apparently) that has played in one in the last 10 years you wouldn't consider a "national power" |
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| Author: | Brick [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
This ignores the point though. The way Notre Dame schedules gives them an advantage over every other school. Yes, they normally play 2-5 ranked teams a year but it also comes with 3-4 true road games. This year they only play in the opposing stadium of 3 other schools. The schedule they play is fairly randomized that you don't get what conference schools get which is a lot of tape against similar opponents. When Penn State and Michigan play they can look at how both of them played against similar competition. This makes a big difference by the end of the season. This makes it more difficult for a team to go undefeated in a conference. They also have many less multiple year opponents and actively chose to end many of the yearly rivalries they had. They had a cake walk to the BCS and title game under the old rules. They would leap frog any team with the same amount of losses and even some with less losses. The national title loss year is the only one where you could really make a case they were a top ten team but even that is tough to tell because they really only had two quality wins that whole year. |
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| Author: | Hank Scorpio [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
You make it sound as though schedules are done from year to year. These things are planned out several years in advance. ND schedules USC and if USC has a down year the critics will say "They didn't beat anyone!!" The year they signed the schedule extension was probably a year they were winning the Pac 10. The stadium series thing is pretty stupid, neutral site games in the regular season typically are. I also agree it was stupid for them to lose some of the rivalry games but part of that is due to ACC conference deal with their other sports. They have plenty of tape of everyone to study, I'm sure they don't get that much of an advantage because they didn't get to see how they performed against Purdue's RT vs how another team did. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Playing in a Natl title game, under any circumstances, makes you a Natl power, IMO Auburn, even with the win. Probably Oregon too.Is there any team (besides ND apparently) that has played in one in the last 10 years you wouldn't consider a "national power" Well I would put both of them in. I consider any team than usually ends up in top 10 a Natl power |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Hank Scorpio wrote: They aren't Nevada or Tulane, if any major team goes undefeated they are making the final 4. That was still the BCS.It also doesn't change what I said. Put Notre Dame in the Big Ten or SEC and they aren't undefeated that year. They may have |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Playing in a Natl title game, under any circumstances, makes you a Natl power, IMO Auburn, even with the win. Probably Oregon too.Is there any team (besides ND apparently) that has played in one in the last 10 years you wouldn't consider a "national power" Well I would put both of them in. I consider any team than usually ends up in top 10 a Natl power Boise state? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Yes probably Boise a few years ago. Are they still good? |
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| Author: | Chus [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: Yes probably Boise a few years ago. Are they still good? Good, not great. They are about the equivalent of an average to good Big Ten team. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
My answer was trying to show that a team ending up in the top ten a few years doesn't necessarily mean a national power. |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: SomeGuy wrote: When was the last time ND was actually a real nationl power? They were propped up by scheduling(not weak necessarily but advantageous to them) and too much power in the BCS. This made them look like a top ten team when they clearly never were.They went into the Natl Championship Game undefeated. Yes, they also got killed. Way overrated. A national power doesn't equal a one off title run, especially one where they get exposed as an overrated garbage dump. Get a clue. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
SomeGuy wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: SomeGuy wrote: When was the last time ND was actually a real nationl power? They were propped up by scheduling(not weak necessarily but advantageous to them) and too much power in the BCS. This made them look like a top ten team when they clearly never were.They went into the Natl Championship Game undefeated. Yes, they also got killed. Way overrated. A national power doesn't equal a one off title run, especially one where they get exposed as an overrated garbage dump. Get a clue. Wrong again you stupid piece of shit |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
pittmike wrote: My answer was trying to show that a team ending up in the top ten a few years doesn't necessarily mean a national power. Ok. I guess we have different definitions. So really there is only one power and its Alabama? When I started this thread my hope was Notre Dame would get back to always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Is Michigan State a NATIONAL POWER? No, of course not. Though when you compare Sparty to Domers since 2010 when Brian Kelly took over they have the FAR SUPERIOR record. Sparty -vs- Domers 2010: 11-2 -vs- 8-5 2011: 11-3 -vs- 8-5 2012: 7-6 -vs- 12-1 2013: 13-1 -vs- 9-4 2014: 11-2 -vs- 8-5 2015: 12-2 -vs- 10-3 Notre Dome is essentially a slightly better Iowa. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Ok. I'll let you guys define it. How many National powers are there? 2-3? What would you call this kind of program.... "always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not" because its certainly a significant step up from the previous few coaching regimes |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Hank Scorpio wrote: You make it sound as though schedules are done from year to year. These things are planned out several years in advance. ND schedules USC and if USC has a down year the critics will say "They didn't beat anyone!!" The year they signed the schedule extension was probably a year they were winning the Pac 10. It's not about the schedule in every single year. It is how they schedule and how it gives them an advantage virtually every year. Using the national title team as an example, they really only had two quality wins that year. Now, it isn't their fault that MSU and Michigan were down that year but it is just the reality of the situation. They then got to spend a lot of time preparing for the only two tough games they would have while those teams were worried about the other tough games too.To put it another way, there is a reason they absolutely refuse to join a conference in football. It is because how they can schedule is a huge advantage for them. Penn State was a similar national power while independent. Joining the Big Ten destroyed that before other things also destroyed that. Hank Scorpio wrote: They have plenty of tape of everyone to study, I'm sure they don't get that much of an advantage because they didn't get to see how they performed against Purdue's RT vs how another team did. I think you underestimate just how hard it is to play in a conference as the dominant team rather than independent playing one or maybe two teams from a conference. Familiarity with your similar opponents and each other year over year allows inferior teams to more easily compete with better teams. You can see it with Navy and how they suddenly have started to really compete with Notre Dame while being a far inferior team. You can see it when USC is down and still finds a way to do really well against them.
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: "always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not" Since 1993, Notre Dame has finished in the top ten in 1 out of 2 polls once, and in both polls twice. They were unranked in 11 of those years.So I'd call that team "not Notre Dame". |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
My definition of a stud program is like BRick's. Miami, USC, Florida had their runs as national powers. Alabama and Ohio State are now the only beast programs. Stanford, Michigan State, Oklahoma, Baylor, Florida State...they are a notch below but they meet the criteria of "always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not" Notre Dame needs to do better to get even on that level. Not a Domer Hater like our boy pittmike. It's just they haven't even strung together back-to-back 10 wins seasons. Gotta do that first |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: pittmike wrote: My answer was trying to show that a team ending up in the top ten a few years doesn't necessarily mean a national power. Ok. I guess we have different definitions. So really there is only one power and its Alabama? When I started this thread my hope was Notre Dame would get back to always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not Not going to happen, hasn't happened and if it did it shouldn't have Always overrated. As Kirkwood said they are essentially a mid level Big Ten team and have been for some time. ND crazies need to get with the program. IT'S OVER. It's been over for a long while. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: pittmike wrote: My answer was trying to show that a team ending up in the top ten a few years doesn't necessarily mean a national power. Ok. I guess we have different definitions. So really there is only one power and its Alabama? When I started this thread my hope was Notre Dame would get back to always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not I see what you are saying completely. I was just pointing out the oddball schools that can get some top 10's. As for ND screw them. Just my personal dislike. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Michigan State, Wisconsin, LSU and Florida State are powers. They just are not elite. There are only a few elite and they change usually by periods of a decade or so. USC used to be one with Carroll. ND is slightly less than a national power in my opinion. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: When I started this thread my hope was Notre Dame would get back to always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not Me, forget it? You should forget it! You're livin' in the past, man! You're hung up on some team...from the 60's man! |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
W_Z wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: When I started this thread my hope was Notre Dame would get back to always being ranked, finishing in top 10 and in the Natl Title conversation more often than not Me, forget it? You should forget it! You're livin' in the past, man! You're hung up on some team...from the 60's man! They had Rocket Ismail! |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Is RPB a Cubs fan? |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Kirkwood wrote: Is Michigan State a NATIONAL POWER? No, of course not. Though when you compare Sparty to Domers since 2010 when Brian Kelly took over they have the FAR SUPERIOR record. Sparty -vs- Domers 2010: 11-2 -vs- 8-5 2011: 11-3 -vs- 8-5 2012: 7-6 -vs- 12-1 2013: 13-1 -vs- 9-4 2014: 11-2 -vs- 8-5 2015: 12-2 -vs- 10-3 Notre Dome is essentially a slightly better Iowa. MSU isn't a national power? Regular top rankings, regular NYD bowl appearances, power five league championships, top coach, presence in the early rounds of the NFL draft, national recruiting base They aren't Michigan and OSU as far as a brand name, but they are on the same plane as both on the field |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
pittmike wrote: Michigan State, Wisconsin, LSU and Florida State are powers. They just are not elite. There are only a few elite and they change usually by periods of a decade or so. USC used to be one with Carroll. ND is slightly less than a national power in my opinion. elite is more brand name than current accomplishment and ND is certainly one of the brand name college football programs |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
good dolphin wrote: Kirkwood wrote: Is Michigan State a NATIONAL POWER? No, of course not. Though when you compare Sparty to Domers since 2010 when Brian Kelly took over they have the FAR SUPERIOR record. Sparty -vs- Domers 2010: 11-2 -vs- 8-5 2011: 11-3 -vs- 8-5 2012: 7-6 -vs- 12-1 2013: 13-1 -vs- 9-4 2014: 11-2 -vs- 8-5 2015: 12-2 -vs- 10-3 Notre Dome is essentially a slightly better Iowa. MSU isn't a national power? Regular top rankings, regular NYD bowl appearances, power five league championships, top coach, presence in the early rounds of the NFL draft, national recruiting base They aren't Michigan and OSU as far as a brand name, but they are on the same plane as both on the field I only have Ohio State and Alabama as national powers who are expected and deliver in being National Championship conversation every year. I put MSU just a notch below with Stanford, Oklahoma, Florida State tier . |
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| Author: | Chus [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: So really there is only one power and its Alabama? Ohio State These are really the only two schools who have been legit contenders every year, for the last decade. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
Chus wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: So really there is only one power and its Alabama? Ohio State These are really the only two schools who have been legit contenders every year, for the last decade. Ok well whatever you would call teams that are usually top ten- top 15 is what I meant |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
SomeGuy wrote: Is RPB a Cubs fan? Act like you know |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rebuilding a National Power: Notre Dame thread |
rogers park bryan wrote: SomeGuy wrote: Is RPB a Cubs fan? Act like you know Are you a Cubs fan? YES OR NO |
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