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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
Currently down ~ 575 points.


The market's been overvalued for a while. But "our" President is doing the markets no favors by actively destroying global trade and bashing companies like Amazon. The mere uncertainty of what this guy is going to say or do next is scaring the crap out of investors.

but in the end we all know the market with a diversified passively managed mutual fund (VFIAX) is still the best place to be in the long run.

and yes Trump's idiotic comments/actions on trade are no help. It's almost as if he skipped class in college when taking Macro


I'm confused as my republican friends from day one have lectured me that leaving the free markets be is a core tenant of Conservatism 101.

Well, the facts of the matter are Donald Trump is not a conservative, but rather a populist. Populism usually makes for very bad policy.

However, Republican voters are largely retarded so they've abandoned some of their core ideas to follow Trump over the ledge.

Agreed. I was trolling. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
..
but in the end we all know the market with a diversified passively managed mutual fund (VFIAX) is still the best place to be in the long run...


Not necessarily. Managed funds can have a place too. But need to find the right managers.

Average Annual Returns - 10-year

VFIAX: 9.49

POGRX: 13.27
VWUAX: 11.20
VGHCX: 12.94

https://advisors.vanguard.com/web/cf/compare-products/

I hold positions in all three.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:31 pm 
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a genius wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
..
but in the end we all know the market with a diversified passively managed mutual fund (VFIAX) is still the best place to be in the long run...


Not necessarily. Managed funds can have a place too. But need to find the right managers.

Average Annual Returns - 10-year

VFIAX: 9.49

POGRX: 13.27
VWUAX: 11.20
VGHCX: 12.94

https://advisors.vanguard.com/web/cf/compare-products/

I hold positions in all three.

I know there are funds that can outperform, but they come with higher expense ratios and just carry more risk in general. I just prefer the passively managed for that reason as fund managers change and strategies that may have given them those higher 10 year returns may not show such success when repeated. I just am risk averse by nature so VFIAX is right for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:48 pm 
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I remember when as a first time retirement planner I had to choose things for my 401k I picked a Van Kampen something or other because I liked their fishsticks. Ended up being a decent enough financial decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:52 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
I remember when as a first time retirement planner I had to choose things for my 401k I picked a Van Kampen something or other because I liked their fishsticks. Ended up being a decent enough financial decision.


One of my industry friends was interviewing for a job as a mutual fund analyst. He got flustered in an interview when the person asked him which funds were his favorite. He said he blanked and couldn't think of any, so he said Strong Funds. The interviewer followed up with, "isn't that the place where the CEO is under investigation for illegal trading." Oops.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Sounds like a good investment opportunity to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:16 am 
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China will take care of it today
Ugh...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 am 
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denisdman wrote:
a genius wrote:
Investors, or traders?

From a newsletter I read:

Quote:
The market's "Tariff Tantrum" over the $50 billion to $60 billion levy on Chinese imports that was announced on March 22, one week ago, was pretty routine, but traders took the announcement and ran with it. Meanwhile I'm going to assume that investors, who tend to have a timeframe that extends beyond five nanoseconds, took the announcement in stride. Why?

Well, let's step back a minute and consider the initial Trump administration announcement that blanket tariffs of 25% and 10% would be applied to all steel and aluminum imports, respectively. So far, according to an analysis by Moody's Analytics, "temporary" exemptions have been given to Canada, Mexico, the E.U., Brazil, South Korea and Australia, adding up to 65% of the imports upon which tariffs were supposed to be levied and 67% of the value of all steel imports. Does that sound like a blanket tariff?

If you're to believe the reports out of Washington, negotiators for the U.S. and China are already in discussions about just how far the new set of tariffs will go—if they go at all. A tit-for-tat tariff compromise is most likely the end result, giving all involved the ability to go back to their constituencies and claim victory. I'm keeping my skeptic's hat pulled down tight.


Traders are a subset of investors.


From https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answer ... rading.asp

Bold emphases are mine.

This is not intended to be argumentative, but rather just a discussion.

Quote:
Investing and trading are two very different methods of attempting to profit in the financial markets. The goal of investing is to gradually build wealth over an extended period of time through the buying and holding of a portfolio of stocks, baskets of stocks, mutual funds, bonds and other investment instruments. Investors often enhance their profits through compounding, or reinvesting any profits and dividends into additional shares of stock. Investments are often held for a period of years, or even decades, taking advantage of perks like interest, dividends and stock splits along the way. While markets inevitably fluctuate, investors will "ride out" the downtrends with the expectation that prices will rebound and any losses will eventually be recovered. Investors are typically more concerned with market fundamentals, such as price/earnings ratios and management forecasts.

Trading, on the other hand, involves the more frequent buying and selling of stock, commodities, currency pairs or other instruments, with the goal of generating returns that outperform buy-and-hold investing. While investors may be content with a 10 to 15% annual return, traders might seek a 10% return each month. Trading profits are generated through buying at a lower price and selling at a higher price within a relatively short period of time. The reverse is also true: trading profits are made by selling at a higher price and buying to cover at a lower price (known as "selling short") to profit in falling markets. Where buy-and-hold investors wait out less profitable positions, traders must make profits (or take losses) within a specified period of time, and often use a protective stop loss order to automatically close out losing positions at a predetermined price level. Traders often employ technical analysis tools, such as moving averages and stochastic oscillators, to find high-probability trading setups.

A trader's "style" refers to the timeframe or holding period in which stocks, commodities or other trading instruments are bought and sold. Traders generally fall into one of four categories:

Position Trader – positions are held from months to years
Swing Trader – positions are held from days to weeks
Day Trader – positions are held throughout the day only with no overnight positions
Scalp Trader – positions are held for seconds to minutes with no overnight positions
Traders often choose their trading style based on factors including: account size, amount of time that can be dedicated to trading, level of trading experience, personality and risk tolerance. Both investors and traders seek profits through market participation. In general, investors seek larger returns over an extended period through buying and holding. Traders, by contrast, take advantage of both rising and falling markets to enter and exit positions over a shorter timeframe, taking smaller, more frequent profits.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:48 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
I remember when as a first time retirement planner I had to choose things for my 401k I picked a Van Kampen something or other because I liked their fishsticks. Ended up being a decent enough financial decision.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:54 am 
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A genius, yeah I get what that is saying. Traders are invested in the market, but just with constantly changing positions. They have the same goal- to earn a return, but they are taking a different approach. Keep in mind, many of the funds people are invested in are constantly trading and changing positions with high portfolio turnover. That is what index funds so attractive- it is lower costs and aligned with the goal of long term wealth building.

If you fast forward to retirement, you and a day trader who earned 8% per year over a lifetime is the result of investing just with different tactics.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:55 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
China will take care of it today
Ugh...



Ag taking it on the chin, all be it with slight recovery from earlier.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:43 am 
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denisdman wrote:
A genius, yeah I get what that is saying. Traders are invested in the market, but just with constantly changing positions. They have the same goal- to earn a return, but they are taking a different approach. Keep in mind, many of the funds people are invested in are constantly trading and changing positions with high portfolio turnover. That is what index funds so attractive- it is lower costs and aligned with the goal of long term wealth building.

If you fast forward to retirement, you and a day trader who earned 8% per year over a lifetime is the result of investing just with different tactics.

but one of those tactics involves much lower stress than the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:27 am 
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S&P 500 is now positive on the day FYI

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
S&P 500 is now positive on the day FYI


Coming off the worst quarter in a decade, goofy news and notable for its crazy volatility, just wait until about 1:45.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Tell me that wasn't rigging by the Plunge Protection Team today that brought the stock market back from -600 on the Dow.

Big-time rigging. You want to put your hard earned money into that, Ogie, a market that isn't even real?


Last edited by Dignified Rube on Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:49 pm 
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I am not sure what is going to happen with the market but in an index of 24,000 +/-600 isn't a whole lot.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
Tell me that wasn't rigging by the Plunge Protection Team today that brought the stock market back from -600 on the Dow.

Big-time rigging. You want to put your hard earned money into that, Ogie, a market that isn't even real?

Keep buying that shiny metal which produces no income. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:56 pm 
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Dow almost -400 today.

Bank stocks now all red for the year, including JPM.

"For the first time this year, all big banks are seeing red.

JPMorgan Chase & Co. tumbled into negative territory for the year on Tuesday, joining rivals who were already there. Coupled a plunge in Treasury yields, the move helped spur an almost 4 percent retreat in the KBW Bank Index.

“That’s something that has not happened all year,” Matt Maley, equity strategist at Miller Tabak + Co., wrote in a note to clients.

In many ways, JPMorgan’s late to the party. Every major money center bank such as Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc., as well as large investment banks like Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, has already endured a period of year-to-date declines prior to the selloff."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/last-dom ... 36092.html


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 11:50 am 
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LOL the market already regained its losses and more.

Keep buying gold, you won't be able to generate a retirement income off of it. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:11 pm 
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While I personally prefer the S&P 500 as the benchmark for the market, it is worth noting that the Nasdaq has closed at an all-time high.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:03 pm 
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More highs today for the Russell 2000 and the Nasdaq. S&P 500 is now up 4.5% on the year.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Sad day...General Electric being replaced in the Dow by Walgreens. GE was the only remaining original member.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Sad day...General Electric being replaced in the Dow by Walgreens. GE was the only remaining original member.


Boy, Immelt really tanked that company and left it a shadow of its former self. The new guy is clueless too. It is time to break it up into its various units and let them get acquired by stronger industry players.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:59 pm 
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I know I'm going to catch flack for this, but I dumped my physical gold today on a premonition that stocks and commodities are headed much lower.

My outlook was correct when I entered at $1,320/oz. about four months ago and gold did rise to $1,365 afterward. But after failing to get above major resistance at that level, it's been all downhill since then, because of the stronger dollar (Kudlow talked it up), diffused tensions with North Korea, trade war fears, and possibly more aggressive Fed tightening. And even with equities getting hit this last week, there's been no safe-haven bid at all to gold.

If everything is going to be dumped, you want to be in cash.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:14 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Sad day...General Electric being replaced in the Dow by Walgreens. GE was the only remaining original member.


Boy, Immelt really tanked that company and left it a shadow of its former self. The new guy is clueless too. It is time to break it up into its various units and let them get acquired by stronger industry players.


Microcosm for many companies similar. I remember talking to people about working at GE Medical (now Healthcare) years ago. After Welch it was let’s move the metrics and make the margins anyway anyhow. Nothing more thought about.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Thanks trump!?!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:31 pm 
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2018 gains are now wiped out. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:45 am 
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PANIC?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:55 pm 
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a genius wrote:
PANIC?

Put all your cash in a foot locker and pray.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:42 pm 
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What the hell is going on!

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