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 Post subject: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:39 am 
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Any distance runners on the board? I can't remember ever seeing a topic on this before. I started running seriously this past summer for the first time in 20+ years and have been really surprised by how quick the improvement has come and how much better I feel. I have completed a few 5k races and have a couple more planned over the next couple months and look forward to moving up to 10k and half marathons this next spring and summer, and maybe start thinking about training for a full marathon in 2015. I would love to hear from anyone who competes in those longer distances about how you train and how long it takes you to prepare for the longer races.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:02 am 
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I've averaged a minimum of 30 miles a week for the last thirty years. That's taken a definite toll. I'm breaking down now. I never had much of a plan. Just get out there and go. I probably should have changed shoes more often. I enjoy running a lot, but I'm starting to think there are better ways to exercise that don't put as much stress on the joints. A guy I used to run with occasionally who was much stronger than I ever was has sworn off running altogether. He now thinks the negatives outweigh the positives. This was a guy who could run 5 minute mile after 5 minute mile.

I was never one to study running or read books on training. For as much as I ran, I probably should have. I did try to train in a way similar to the way I would train a horse. I always liked to come the last mile the fastest. I usually tried to get the last quarter-mile as fast as I could. And then cool out by continuing to walk for awhile and taking occasional sips of water.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:25 am 
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I currently run about 20-22 miles per week, but my current plan will have me up to 30 by spring. I have read a bit on the subject of the long-term effects of running. Most of them point to the importance of shoes and replacing them after certain mileage has been met. I have not yet popped for an expensive pair of running shoes but I am starting to think that it is a pretty important purchase that i will have to make before running much longer distances. the old $25 clearance rack shoes i am wearing now seem to feel very good and be holding up well so it is hard to reconcile going out and spending $100+ for shoes. i train a lot like you mentioned - i tend to start out slow and my last mile tends to be my fastest. Some experts i have read do not suggest that - they suggest even paced runs, some days close to max effort and some days slow, but consistent pacing. I dunno, i just run. i havent been doing it long enough to to figure it all out yet. thanks for the reply!


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:28 am 
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I have tried being a runner to help keep the weight down. In the summer months I'll maintain about 25-30 miles a week, but I weight around 200 most of the time and it definitely takes a toll on my knees.

Regarding shoes, I was like you with clearance shoes, i would always find these trail shoes by Adidas for 35 bucks and they seemed to hold up really well. Finally after enough hassling by a running friend I went to dick ponds and had them fit shoes for me. The first week I absolutely loved them. I could feel a difference in my stride and how my legs would roll into the next stride and I felt quite a bit faster. I did 7 miles in 58 minutes which absolutely crushed my personal best to this day. And then the pains started. I would feel discomfort in a knee, or my toe or the occasional hip. And I would break down and have to stop after a couple of miles. On many of these runs I was planning on pushing out to 8-10 miles, and would be walking home after 2 with a painful limp. These were issues that never came form my old shoes. I took the shoes back and got a different pair and the same things would start happening after a mile or so.

I've gone back to clearance Adidas and continue to be happy. I'm currently waiting for custom orthopedic inserts from an actual Dr as i have heard good things about those. I was talking to the Dr about shoes a bit and how the cheap shoes fit me best. Forget exactly what he said, but the jist was the high end running shoes could be causing me to change stride and wear on different components of my knees. And that can cause pain or injuries up and down the legs.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:31 am 
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turd, that is an interesting experience you had with the shoes. we are probably wearing the same shoes, because mine are also adidas trail shoes. they feel fine, i have no complaints and i certainly am not looking for trouble. maybe i should just keep plowing along with these. it isn't like i have a ton of miles on them - only a couple hundred tops, and frankly they feel pretty good. my long run distance is getting higher (tomorrow will be my first 8-miler), so maybe i will just play it by ear and see how it goes. thanks for the info!


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:30 pm 
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How about that. They have almost cleat like rubber bumps on the bottom? If so I'm had them for years and they treat me well. I know I go well past the 200 or 300 mile limit on them.

I'd say stick with those. it pissed me off to no end dropping 125 on a shoe that i only wore for a few weeks. Plus once you go into a running store they start telling you about everything you are doing wrong and that everything you wear is bad for you. I remember them trying to talk me into to buying a 24 pair of running socks. Give me a fucking break.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:07 pm 
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yeah, they sure do, they are grey with the lime green adidas stripes on them. they have been very good shoes for me to this point, and for the money it is hard to beat. i would love to go to a running store and actually have someone watch me run and tell me some info about my stride and all that, but i don't want to go in and get the full-court press to drop $150 on shoes and all that other stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:12 am 
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I just got back from a 12 mile run and noticed this....

I've done about 35 marathons and ultras. I ran a bit in college but then stopped for many years. I started up again in May 1999 because I needed to drop weight. I doubt I would still be running today if it weren't for doing marathons, as they give running a purpose for me, because you have to do the training.

Right now I do about 3 marathons a year. There are some terrific ones around the country and we have had some great marathon-based vacations. But marathons are becoming very popular so for many of them you have to plan ahead, as some fill within just a few hours.

I run about 40 miles per week. I am a bigger guy (6' 3", 215 lbs) but have never had knee problems. I attribute that to wearing the right shoes and orthotics, running in the street (not on a treadmill - too much repetition), and some good luck.

My advice, such as it is:

1) Join a running club and/or find people to run with. Runners are generally very cool and you can make some good friends. Plus having a running commitment with someone gets you out the door.

2) Don't skimp on the shoes. Get properly fitted at a running store. Once you know what you need you can order replacements on line (zappos, running wearhouse.com). Much cheaper. Shoes wear out after 300-400 miles.

3) See http://www.halhigdon.com/ for marathon training programs. The key is the weekly long run. Do them and you will complete your marathon.

Have fun!

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:24 am 
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I've only gone the Marathon distance twice, once formally and once training up to it just to make sure I could do it. My basic run is five miles. In fact, I'm about to head out right now. I'm having difficulty with my left knee and suddenly my hips are getting stiff during runs. It's probably related. I can pop a couple Advil and go like hell, but I don't like to do that. You should know where you're sore. It's definitely time for some new shoes.

It sounds like you're a much more accomplished runner than the rest of us in this thread so far, but I've had the same problems with shoes as the other guys. I've gone to that runner's store in Lincoln Square and I talked to a "consultant" and got fitted and tried them on the treadmill, but I had problems when I actually got out on the road. It seems like shoes are a crapshoot for me. I've bought cheap ones and expensive ones. I'm not brand loyal. I've used New Balance, Nike, Asics, etc. But I just never know how a pair is going to be until I go in them a few times.

I was fascinated reading about those barefoot runners. I tried it once and I couldn't even get over the grass field behind my house with discomfort. I run outside all winter too. Nice days like today are a blessing. I'm going to wear shorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:55 am 
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:lol: what I am most accomplished at is getting slower. But I am willing to sacrifice speed for remaining injury-free (some people claim speedwork causes injury) but that is probably just an excuse.

:lol: the barefoot running. Keep it! I know one guy that cut up his foot big-time. For me it's not worth the risk. I do remember one guy at a marathon -- I think it was Big Sur -- that ran it barefoot and backwards. He blew right past me :lol:

Regarding shoes, I would just keep persisting. I would buy the few that feel the best and then give them each a 2 mile spin, then return the ones that don't feel right. I was in a Nike stability shoe for years. They discontinued it so now I am in an Asics GT-2000 which I actually like much better than the Nike.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:05 pm 
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I only run if something's chasing me. I don't think chronic cardio is good for the body.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:26 pm 
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a genius wrote:
:lol: what I am most accomplished at is getting slower.


:lol: Yeah, I just went my 5 miles in right around 45 minutes. For me at this point, not terrible in the winter while splashing through slush and with the knee less than great. I don't think I've ever gone a mile much faster than 6 minutes, but there was a time when I could reel off four or five six minute shots in a row. I think we have a couple guys here, maybe Zach and beni hanna, for whom that isn't a big deal. But the average goof in the park isn't averaging six minutes a mile.

My cousin's kid is one of the top distance runners in the state. She's a freshman at Lane. A few years ago when she was in fifth or sixth grade she was winning all these races and I asked my cousin how fast they went. He said the mile splits were around six minutes. I thought to myself, "Man, if a ten year old girl can do that, I ought to be able to." I hadn't gone very fast for awhile at that time- my regular pace was between 8-9 minutes depending on weather- so I ran two miles at about 8 minutes and tried to get the next one as fast as I could. I stopped the watch and started grabbing my socks. I looked at the timer and it was somewhere around 6:30. No way I could have gone any more. It sucks getting old. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:51 pm 
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wow AR, thats pretty impressive! thank you for the advice. i am actually currently in the middle of the higdon novice half marathon training program, and it is going very well. i can tell you guys right now that i am not running at the pace either of you are, but i have really improved. i ran my first steps at the end of august doing the C25K program. in early september i ran my first mile in about 13 minutes. in october i ran my first 5k distance in training in about 36 minutes. on thanksgiving i ran my first 5k race in just over 32 minutes, and 10 days later i ran my second 5k in 30:12. since then i have been doing the higdon program and today ran 8 miles for the first time in about a 1:27, a little under 11 minutes per mile. my 2014 goal is to be able to run the quad cities half marathon next september in under 2 hours.

i typically run 5 days a week with saturday being my long, slow run. i also run one fast 5k each week. the other runs i run at a comfortable pace. i generally run a typical training 5k at about 10 minutes per mile. i just broke 30 minutes for 5k for the first time this week. not bad for a couch potato 4 months ago i dont think!

for anyone reading this who is on the fence about running or exercise in general, i have to tell you it has made a remarkable change in my life, i feel so much better and it really satisfies my competitive nature too. it is a great feeling setting goals, meeting them, and setting new goals.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
I only run if something's chasing me. I don't think chronic cardio is good for the body.


I think the jury is still out on that. I have seen studies that suggest long-term running weakens the heart. But here is a new study that suggests it adds years to ones life. So who knows?

From http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... 6763742845

Quote:
New research shows ultra marathons could add 16 years to your life

Lucie van den Berg medical reporter
Herald Sun
November 20, 2013 12:01AM

EXCLUSIVE: ULTRA Marathon running appears to have the extraordinary effect of extending life by up to 16 years.

New Victorian research reveals that running long-distance runs can slow the ageing process by protecting the part of the body that stops the genes from fraying.

Runners in The Federation University Australia study had an average age of 43, but their biological age was just 27.

But for those not partial to pounding 40km worth of pavement, the researchers believe similar life-extending benefits could be achieved by high-intensity interval training.

The findings from the state's new university, which combines both University of Ballarat and Monash University Gippsland, challenges old assumptions that extreme exercise had a detrimental impact on the body.

School of Health Sciences Professor Fadi Charchar and PhD student Joshua Denham analysed the DNA of 67 ultra marathon runners to see what the impact of running long distances had on the length of their telomeres.

These structures are made up of DNA and protein and act as protective caps on the ends of chromosomes.

Prof Charchar said telomeres influence how quickly cells age.

The shorter the telomeres become over time; the faster the cells deteriorate.

The findings, to be presented at the Australian Society for Medical Research National Conference, found ultra-marathon runners clocking up 40-100 km a week had 11 per cent longer telomeres.

"This 11 per cent difference adds 16 years to your life expectancy," Prof Charchar said.

State representative of the Australian Ultra Runners Association Sharon Scholz said she enjoys feeling fit and having energy and the sense of accomplishment of pushing her body.

Her husband, Justin, who is also an ultra-marathon runner, said it was great to know that the exercise was extending his life in addition to boosting his fitness.

Prof Charchar said it was still unclear how exercise stops telomeres shortening and what amount of exercise was required to achieve it.

The study is being extended to look at whether high-intensity interval training could have the same effect.

"Not everyone has to run 40km every week, we think that it may be better to do a little bit of high intensity benefit rather than one hour walking," he said.

He said they are also investigating whether the benefits could make positive genetic changes that could be passed on to children.

Lucie.vandenberg@news.com.au

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:18 am 
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From http://www.atrailrunnersblog.com/2014/0 ... 7s+Blog%29

Quote:
Are Ultrarunners Healthier Than Most People? New Study Says Yes, For The Most Part...

On January 8th, 2014, Dr. Marty Hoffman and his colleagues gave us a glimpse of some findings in his longitudinal study on 1,200+ ultrarunners. The result? Ultrarunners are healthier than your average person for the most part, with the exception of asthma and injury.

For those who don't know Dr. Hoffman, he is an avid ultramarathoner with plenty of Western States finishes under his belt, and one of the most dedicated medical researchers on everything ultra. He's also just a great guy - back in 2005, he taught me how to run down hills during one of my first ultras. If you've ever given blood at the end of the race for "scientific purposes", he's likely the guy crunching the data. This most recent study has Dr. Hoffman working with Dr. Eswar Krishnan and fellow scientists from UC Davis and Stanford to understand the general health profile of ultrarunners.

You may have caught the slightly-sensationalist version that NBC released earlier this week, Ultrarunners Aren't Always Ultrahealthy. This coverage correctly pointed out about one in 20 of the runners reported a stress fracture in the past year, and 11% of these ultrarunners reported asthma (vs 8% for the general population), and 25% reported allergies. All of these are higher than normal, but as Krishnan says this is likely because ultrarunners spend more time outside than most of us. “We are all potentially allergic to many things, but we don’t see symptoms because we don’t come into contact with these allergens,” he says.

After reading the research, I found myself more fascinated with where ultrarunners are showing better than average health indicators and where our injury types are common. For example:

Ultrarunners miss 60% less work (2.2 days vs 3.7 days for average). This includes the average 0.3 days lost to exercise-related injury. Ultrarunners also go to the doctor less.
Average days spent in bed due to sickness was 1.0 days vs 4.7 days for the general population. That's huge! But may also be indicative of a largely white/more affluent sample.
Ultrarunners score lower on virtually all chronic diseases and mental health disorders.
52% of ultrarunners have had a least one injury that derailed their training, and that skews to ultrarunners who are younger and less experienced. The chief culprit - the knee, which accounts for 15% of injuries.
Stress fractures are less common in the leg relative to shorter distance runners, but more common in the foot; researchers point to terrain as the main variable, where asphalt and cement may affect legs more and the varied terrain of ultras put more pressure on the foot.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:34 am 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
I only run if something's chasing me. I don't think chronic cardio is good for the body.

This

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:56 am 
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What section should I post in if I run in the garage?

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:01 pm 
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I second the suggestion to get shoes. Turd, I would say that you likely had pains because of the intensity and not because of the shoes. If you felt faster and started speeding up your runs, your body wasn't ready for that. You really have to balance speed work with endurance work.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:10 pm 
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I've run off an on for 20 years, usually off. The only thing I can add is that for acute knee pain, try the small brace strap that goes under your knee cap. That helped me a lot. But don't wear it all the time.

I thought about doing a marathon, but figured I didn't want to waste my time training for it. And then who cares nowadays, everyone runs a marathon. Doing an Iron Man? Now that is something!

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:26 pm 
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i have been focusing almost exclusively on endurance and slowly adding miles over the last 6 weeks particularly, without much concern for speed. one night a week i run an up-tempo (but not quite race speed) 4-miler, but other than that i am pretty much building a base of miles and following the higdon half marathon training plan.

what is funny is that by focusing on endurance i have GREATLY increased my speed. i have a 4-mile race coming up in 2 weeks, so last night i decided to go hard at a 4-miler, to see where i stood. my goal going in to this race has been breaking 40 minutes, 10 minutes per mile. well i got out there last night and turned off the sound on my GPS so that i didn't hear the split times and all that, i wanted to just run by feel and push myself. much to my surprise i cleared 4 miles in 36:40, roughly 4 minutes faster than my previous best time at that distance.

i am currently up to 25 miles per week, almost all of them easy, but i can just feel the strength growing. being a new runner i know that eventually you are only going to speed up so fast training in this way before you really have to work at doing speedwork, but it is amazing how quickly you can improve simply by logging in miles and sticking to a schedule.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:19 pm 
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You get huge gains early on in running. My first 5K was 33 minutes. I broke 30 3 months later and broke 27 within a year.

At some point, if you are serious about it and really trying to get gains, you have to focus on the diet. Extra weight = extra seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:57 am 
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I have a 4-mile race tomorrow morning in Clinton, IA but what had been a race i was really looking forward to racing hard in dry conditions looks like is going to deteriorate into a snowy slop run. I have been consistently running 4 miles in under 37 and in good conditions i was hoping for under 36 which would have been cool. Not sure i am going to run if the conditions are poor, the last thing i need to do is injure myself running in a snowstorm.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:15 pm 
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I was in the best shape of my life five years ago when I was running 5 miles 3-4 days a week. Combined with diet, strength training and full-court basketball two days a week before work, my resting heart rate was low, b/p perfect, cholesterol, triglycerides all in check. My doctor told me I was comparable to a triathlete. Then I tweaked my back and incurred some nerve damage in my right leg and I just can’t run like I used to. It’s a struggle and probably not a good idea to fight through it. Damn, I miss that runner’s high.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:24 pm 
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Still dabble in running here and there. Used to run in high school. My best mile time was about 5:10-5:20 and 3 mile race time was around 16:40. Its hard running out here because the allergens are just complete destruction on my lungs.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:30 pm 
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I gotta start again. No doubt you feel like a million bucks after a swift 5 mile run. the high lasts all day pretty much. now I just feel like shit all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Trying to get back into this. Been very difficult to run outside this year between the cold and ice. Been doing
most of my work on ellipticals and stair machines but doesn't give me the satisfaction and adrenaline rush
that jogging / running does. I need to ease into it a bit so that it actually sticks.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Got my first outdoor run in months. 4 miles on Saturday felt so good. Fuck off winter.


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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:12 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Got my first outdoor run in months. 4 miles on Saturday felt so good. Fuck off winter.


Once I stop working 60 hours/week and the weather turns, I'll be hitting the pavement. Can't wait!

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:13 pm 
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I went the other day for the first time in maybe a year or more. Went 3 miles, had to walk about a third of the time. Few days later went the 3 miles without walking, but at a real slow pace. Probably 10-plus minute miles.

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 Post subject: Re: Running
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:37 pm 
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today marks my 8th month of running, and somehow i survived running outdoors 5 days a week this winter and came out the other side no worse for the wear. i did miss 6 or so outdoor workouts due to poor roads and hit the treadmill at the y but otherwise i was able to get through it. im doing about 30 miles per week right now. my first 5k was thanksgiving and i did it in about 32 and change, and just recently i recorded my fastest to date, a 26:24. as an added bonus i have shed 25 pounds this winter.

i ran several shorter races this winter but in 2 weeks i have my first longer distance race, a 10-miler in rock cut state park. looking forward to a fun spring of racing. i have a couple 5ks's, the Bix7 in davenport, and the quad cities half marathon lined up this year.

good luck to everyone with their running this year!


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