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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Would you agree that Goff has brought the show down Rick? That it’s not a smooth or interesting listen and a bad pairing altogether?
I like Goff as a host. I'm not enthusiastic about the show with Bernstein.

To me, the #1 issue is just content. I tried to listen but I just don't care much about Paul George and Westbrook in November. In the playoffs I could handle it if it was a nationally relevant storyline. I've told others before that maybe this just isn't for you, but I get the feeling sometimes that this show isn't for me either and I never got that with Boers. Now, maybe Goff and Bernstein are too similar and therefore you get a show that is intentionally unplanned exploring the NBA in depth all the time whereas Terry couldn't even name an NBA coach besides Gregg Popovich and Thibs.

However, the funny thing is that the big NBA fans on this board are all pretty silent about this show too, which means they likely aren't tuning in either. So, I'm not sure who they are winning over with this being a major focus of the show.

So, to answer your question, I think the show isn't working as it is being ran, and Goff takes a good portion of the blame there. I think they desperately need a producer who could help them shape the content of the show to match the audience. However, since Goff is a big part of the "We don't even have show meetings!" culture of the show from way back when then yes Goff gets a lot of the blame.


In their artful side-stepping of past hypocrisy by saying it was acceptable at the time, Jason started to venture into the demographic figures they get to see, and he said that by far their biggest demo is white males of a certain age range, but black males are also tuning into their show in greater numbers than before.

Maybe that's what they thought the show would be: The core white male listenership of B&B would remain because of Dan Bernstein, and adding Jason Goff as a host and allowing the content to skew heavily towards the NBA would just add black male listeners to the original group.

They have obviously been going after an "underserved" demo, which is laudable, but they can't be honestly perplexed at people turning their show off as a result.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:40 am 
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Bernstein was great as a weasily little smart ass that made fun of the meatball culture of both the station and chicago sports. When he isn't doing that he pretty much sucks. I can't listen to him now. Everything about his delivery and content is awful. He needs to take about 10 giant rips before he turns on the mic. All goff does is amplify everything that sucks about him. Put that shit on PBS radio already.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:43 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Bernstein was great as a weasily little smart ass that made fun of the meatball culture of both the station and chicago sports. When he isn't doing that he pretty much sucks. I can't listen to him now. Everything about his delivery and content is awful. He needs to take about 10 giant rips before he turns on the mic. All goff does is amplify everything that sucks about him. Put that shit on PBS radio already.


From NPR News in Washington, this is All Things Con(sigh)dered.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:47 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Bernstein was great as a weasily little smart ass that made fun of the meatball culture of both the station and chicago sports. When he isn't doing that he pretty much sucks. I can't listen to him now. Everything about his delivery and content is awful. He needs to take about 10 giant rips before he turns on the mic. All goff does is amplify everything that sucks about him. Put that shit on PBS radio already.


From NPR News in Washington, this is All Things Con(sigh)dered.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:50 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Bernstein was great as a weasily little smart ass that made fun of the meatball culture of both the station and chicago sports.


And that was great when meatball culture held sway. He was great as the antidote. Now we need an antidote to him.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:54 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Bernstein was great as a weasily little smart ass that made fun of the meatball culture of both the station and chicago sports.


And that was great when meatball culture held sway. He was great as the antidote. Now we need an antidote to him.

True. The pendulum has swung way too hard the to other way. So much so that Rick Hahn is winning awards for trading away All-Star talent.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:05 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
So much so that Rick Hahn is winning awards for trading away All-Star talent.

You Theo ass lickers helped pave the way for this sort of nonsense. Magary nailed it when he was railing against Sam Hinkie and Philly fans.

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But I was wrong. Instead, Hinkie introduced these buttholes to a magnificent con, wherein the “future” is, at all times, more valuable than the present, and any team that “wins” the future (just as the Skins used to win every NFL offseason) has just as much of a right to exult as a team that has won, like, actual things.

The result is a new kind of insufferability that has the potential to go beyond the standard horrors of your average Boston or St. Louis fanboy. These new Philly fans have somehow combined the tendencies of a violent drunk with TED talkers. I have never seen such front-running in all my life. Imagine if Ravens fans were exactly the same but also all VC-inflected maniacs. It’s getting that bad. Turns out that Hinkie didn’t revolutionize sports. He just revolutionized being a shithead.

And again, we’re talking about the Sixers and the EAGLES, man. The Eagles are a fucking joke. They’re run by Lifeguard Andy Reid and any sane Philly fan should watch the coming playoffs peeking through their hands. That is that kind of mopey fatalism I am accustomed to, and it’s certainly more appealing than a bunch of bald assholes crowing because they’ve been tricked into believing that you can’t lose a game if you haven’t played it yet. Philly fans need to go into detox, watch the Eagles choke in the divisional round, and return to being the irascible scum they used to be. Because that’s a far cry better than the mutoid shitbags they’ve become. I used to have some affection for you, Philly. Now you deserve to be smacked in the balls with a cheese ladle. Go swim in a dumpster pool, fuckheads.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:15 am 
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Comparing how football teams are built to how baseball teams are built is about as dumb a sports comparison as there is.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:17 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Comparing how football teams are built to how baseball teams are built is about as dumb a sports comparison as there is.

:scratch:

The comparison wasn't in how the teams were built. It's in how the fans reacted during the rebuilding.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:23 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Comparing how football teams are built to how baseball teams are built is about as dumb a sports comparison as there is.

FavreFan was saying "smart" fans have developed a terrible habit of garbling GMs balls because they tank. As if it's some kind of undiscovered genius strategy. Fans are becoming bigger supporters of their GMs than the team itself.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:27 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
So much so that Rick Hahn is winning awards for trading away All-Star talent.

You Theo ass lickers helped pave the way for this sort of nonsense. Magary nailed it when he was railing against Sam Hinkie and Philly fans.

You're not wrong. But the Theo asslickers (myself included) weren't as skeptical by his initial performance since he came in with 2 rings and acquired many of the players that won a third after he left.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:28 am 
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The leagues have built the rules to reward tanking. Can't blame anyone for doing it and I used to be completely against it. Theo was 100% right.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:29 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
Comparing how football teams are built to how baseball teams are built is about as dumb a sports comparison as there is.

FavreFan was saying "smart" fans have developed a terrible habit of garbling GMs balls because they tank. As if it's some kind of undiscovered genius strategy. Fans are becoming bigger supporters of their GMs than the team itself.

Oh.
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:47 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
From what I remember over the last 10-15 years, Bernstein knows basketball but doesn't know almost anything about the NBA. He's routinely weeks or even months behind the general basketball community when it comes to what's happening, who's good, etc. I'd almost rather hear Mac talk about the NBA. Either way I won't come out any more informed, and I'll at least be more entertained by Mac's thoughts. Bernstein is at his worst when he's trying to play "NBA expert"

I think it was Dave in Champaign (RIP) who originally pointed out that for all of Bernstein's worship of MLB analytics, he's pretty anti-intellectual when it comes to them in NBA. And one of the reasons for this may be that he trusts his own ability to view the game more than what the numbers say, but that's flawed both because what he usually ends up espousing is no different or more insightful than general fan cliches and conventional wisdom (remember how quickly he went from Thibs "running a lot of stuff" to being a complete neanderthal when it comes to offense?) and because he'd never accept that kind of appeal to eye test authority from anyone skeptical about baseball analytics.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:07 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
From what I remember over the last 10-15 years, Bernstein knows basketball but doesn't know almost anything about the NBA. He's routinely weeks or even months behind the general basketball community when it comes to what's happening, who's good, etc. I'd almost rather hear Mac talk about the NBA. Either way I won't come out any more informed, and I'll at least be more entertained by Mac's thoughts. Bernstein is at his worst when he's trying to play "NBA expert"

I think it was Dave in Champaign (RIP) who originally pointed out that for all of Bernstein's worship of MLB analytics, he's pretty anti-intellectual when it comes to them in NBA. And one of the reasons for this may be that he trusts his own ability to view the game more than what the numbers say, but that's flawed both because what he usually ends up espousing is no different or more insightful than general fan cliches and conventional wisdom (remember how quickly he went from Thibs "running a lot of stuff" to being a complete neanderthal when it comes to offense?) and because he'd never accept that kind of appeal to eye test authority from anyone skeptical about baseball analytics.


Also, although in many cases he clearly does not understand baseball analytics, I believe he feels he has a better grasp on them than he does on the hoops analytics. I'm sure bernstein has no interest in getting his head around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.


CHICAGO FANATIC wrote:

BUT HE DIDN'T. PIPPEN WAS AWESOME. GTFO.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
From what I remember over the last 10-15 years, Bernstein knows basketball but doesn't know almost anything about the NBA. He's routinely weeks or even months behind the general basketball community when it comes to what's happening, who's good, etc. I'd almost rather hear Mac talk about the NBA. Either way I won't come out any more informed, and I'll at least be more entertained by Mac's thoughts. Bernstein is at his worst when he's trying to play "NBA expert"

I think it was Dave in Champaign (RIP) who originally pointed out that for all of Bernstein's worship of MLB analytics, he's pretty anti-intellectual when it comes to them in NBA. And one of the reasons for this may be that he trusts his own ability to view the game more than what the numbers say, but that's flawed both because what he usually ends up espousing is no different or more insightful than general fan cliches and conventional wisdom (remember how quickly he went from Thibs "running a lot of stuff" to being a complete neanderthal when it comes to offense?) and because he'd never accept that kind of appeal to eye test authority from anyone skeptical about baseball analytics.


Also, although in many cases he clearly does not understand baseball analytics, I believe he feels he has a better grasp on them than he does on the hoops analytics. I'm sure bernstein has no interest in getting his head around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.

Well to be fair, I believe the consensus is that basketball analytics have a real long way to go before they are as accurate or informative as baseball analytics. There are a lot more things a basketball player can do to affect a given play or game than a baseball player can do that simply can’t be measured in any statistical way yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:15 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.


CHICAGO FANATIC wrote:

BUT HE DIDN'T. PIPPEN WAS AWESOME. GTFO.

#Truth. Dolph Schayes shot with two hands. If he played today you would mock him mercilessly.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:28 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.


CHICAGO FANATIC wrote:

BUT HE DIDN'T. PIPPEN WAS AWESOME. GTFO.

#Truth. Dolph Schayes shot with two hands. If he played today you would mock him mercilessly.



Shaq mocked Rick Barry's free throws although Barry shot almost 40% better. There's a Sidney Deane-Billy Hoyle joke in there somewhere.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.


CHICAGO FANATIC wrote:

BUT HE DIDN'T. PIPPEN WAS AWESOME. GTFO.

#Truth. Dolph Schayes shot with two hands. If he played today you would mock him mercilessly.



Shaq mocked Rick Barry's free throws although Barry shot almost 40% better. There's a Sidney Deane-Billy Hoyle joke in there somewhere.

Dolph schayes shot 38% though :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:34 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
From what I remember over the last 10-15 years, Bernstein knows basketball but doesn't know almost anything about the NBA. He's routinely weeks or even months behind the general basketball community when it comes to what's happening, who's good, etc. I'd almost rather hear Mac talk about the NBA. Either way I won't come out any more informed, and I'll at least be more entertained by Mac's thoughts. Bernstein is at his worst when he's trying to play "NBA expert"

I think it was Dave in Champaign (RIP) who originally pointed out that for all of Bernstein's worship of MLB analytics, he's pretty anti-intellectual when it comes to them in NBA. And one of the reasons for this may be that he trusts his own ability to view the game more than what the numbers say, but that's flawed both because what he usually ends up espousing is no different or more insightful than general fan cliches and conventional wisdom (remember how quickly he went from Thibs "running a lot of stuff" to being a complete neanderthal when it comes to offense?) and because he'd never accept that kind of appeal to eye test authority from anyone skeptical about baseball analytics.


Also, although in many cases he clearly does not understand baseball analytics, I believe he feels he has a better grasp on them than he does on the hoops analytics. I'm sure bernstein has no interest in getting his head around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.

Well to be fair, I believe the consensus is that basketball analytics have a real long way to go before they are as accurate or informative as baseball analytics. There are a lot more things a basketball player can do to affect a given play or game than a baseball player can do that simply can’t be measured in any statistical way yet.

I think the bigger issue is that the publicly available data pales in comparison to the proprietary stuff teams themselves use, especially when it comes to defense. That being said, I never got the sense that Bernstein's disinterest in NBA analytics was this kind of nuanced objection to the quality of the data rather than just laziness.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
If you read "Happy Holidays" as "Merry Christmas" + "Happy New Year" you can avoid a lot of unnecessary agitation.

:lol:

This shit is so ridiculous. If someone is getting agitated over holiday greetings then they need to see a therapist immediately.

MANY get upset when they are greeted with "Happy Holidays". It's bizarre.


Heck, some people apparently get upset with "Hello":

https://youtu.be/WpvnO0p9KvU

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:36 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

around how Dolph Schayes had more player value than Scottie Pippen.


CHICAGO FANATIC wrote:

BUT HE DIDN'T. PIPPEN WAS AWESOME. GTFO.

#Truth. Dolph Schayes shot with two hands. If he played today you would mock him mercilessly.



Shaq mocked Rick Barry's free throws although Barry shot almost 40% better. There's a Sidney Deane-Billy Hoyle joke in there somewhere.

Dolph schayes shot 38% though :lol:



True, but I think around 45-47% led the league at that time. Nobody dunked. Dolph did shoot 85% from the stripe.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:45 pm 
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That’s interesting though. You pretty much just described modern women’s basketball.

I agree with you that many current fans underestimate or misguidedly dismiss how good players from past eras were or would be today, but I think you kind of have to start that discussion in the mid 60’s and beyond after Schayes retired.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:53 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
There are a lot more things a basketball player can do to affect a given play or game than a baseball player can do that simply can’t be measured in any statistical way yet.


Agreed. In baseball, someone with a .500 OBP is an undeniably great asset to an offense -- yet in basketball, some guys who shoot .600 from the floor can be called stiffs, while people shooting .400 can be considered MVP-quality.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
If you read "Happy Holidays" as "Merry Christmas" + "Happy New Year" you can avoid a lot of unnecessary agitation.

:lol:

This shit is so ridiculous. If someone is getting agitated over holiday greetings then they need to see a therapist immediately.

MANY get upset when they are greeted with "Happy Holidays". It's bizarre.


I don't get it either. I say happy holidays if I don't know someone's faith. I'm just trying to be cordial and not offend you if you have a faith other than Christianity. Plus, I am including New Years in there too. If you don't like my attempt to be nice, fuck off then!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Of course I turn it on today and they are talking Celtics, Cavs, and Bucks basketball.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Of course I turn it on today and they are talking Celtics, Cavs, and Bucks basketball.

Great show today


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Of course I turn it on today and they are talking Celtics, Cavs, and Bucks basketball.

Great show today

Yup.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Of course I turn it on today and they are talking Celtics, Cavs, and Bucks basketball.

Great show today


Is Goff back? I listened to some of the show with Herron yesterday. Good stuff.

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