It is currently Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:59 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 3273
Location: Woodstock (not the trailer part)
pizza_Place: Jobu
Kudos to Sun-Times' scribe Greg Couch for his August 23, 2006 article about ESPN and the Little League World Series. I personally find ESPN's coverage of this event to be appalling, and "for the love of God, please change the channel" television. It was cute when ABC used to televise the final game. Now it seems so over the top. Are there not presently enough professional sports, Poker, and spelling bees to fill time on the network?

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:44 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:51 am
Posts: 377
Location: Springfield, ??
Little League on ESPN is simply bad for the kids

August 23, 2006

BY GREG COUCH SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST


He's 10 years old and figures to be in next year's Little League World Series, now labeled LLWS on the crawl on ESPN, mixed in seamlessly with MLB and NFL. The kid lives in Ottumwa, Iowa, and goes by ''Smash.''

College coaches and pro scouts are drooling. Baseball apparel companies and equipment manufacturers are calling. But it isn't easy to reach him because his agent is very protective, his trainer very secretive, his parents very annoying.

He needs to be tested for steroids.

Future is scary

I'm looking into the future of Little League baseball, and this is what I'm seeing. By future, I'm talking about anywhere from this afternoon on. The kid will come, with a different nickname. If not from Ottumwa, it'll be Wichita, Cheyenne or Lincoln. He's coming. He's just about here.

Have you been watching the Little League World Series on ESPN? This isn't your father's Little League anymore. No, this one is a sellout, filled with cheating teams, bad language and some of the worst parents on the planet. But we already know that.

I want to talk about this: These games, these children, should not be on national TV.

When did 12-year-old boys become part of our general entertainment? We can turn the channel, but that's not enough. Our kids are living with this, growing up with it. Watch Brent Musburger, Orel Hershiser and Erin Andrews on ESPN, how seriously they're taking this. You'll be looking at the heart of the problem with American sports. Steroids, bad sportsmanship, burned-out and disinterested kids. It all starts here. Just a simple business transaction between Little League selling its soul and ESPN buying it.

They've miked the coaches, and we heard one tell his pitcher that the umpire was squeezing the ''[deleted]'' out of him. And we heard a kid from Staten Island drop a very bad word, and apparently the coach then smacked him.

Hershiser said, ''I think it's a one-time incident. We document it and move on.''

Actually, we should document it, stop and rethink everything. These are the seeds of a culture. ESPN felt it had to put the rest of the series on a five-second delay.

But Musburger said that, on a humorous note, those kids would be known for the delay, ''and they can enjoy that.''

Apparel companies are giving these kids boxes of bats, shirts, freebies. Some kids said they feel like professionals. Oh, the things kids say.

Andrews reported that one kid's usual habit is to eat a doughnut before playing, but when it was delivered to the team hotel Tuesday, some other kid's uncle ate it. Now, back to you, Brent. Musburger broke down the bracket.

Harming the children

Charles Euchner, author of the book Little League, Big Dreams, talked to the Chattanooga Times and Free Press about what he calls the professionalism of childhood:

''More and more aspects of childhood are being organized into discreet activities, rule-bound, with an emphasis toward winning and competing. A certain amount of that is great. When the organized aspects of it overwhelm the play aspects of it, [the trouble begins]. I think what's happened with youth sports that are oriented toward a big, visible championship is that winning and excelling become so important that it's hard to explore other aspects [of play].''

There is something to be said for the hard, goal-oriented work these kids put in. There are things to be gained by sports, but it has to be more pure. Baseball for kids used to be about getting friends together on bikes -- not parents in minivans --and choosing up sides and finding a spot in a field. But parents have squeezed the fun out of sports, organized them to death. And then kids are pressured to practice their fun, work their fun, commit to it.

Did you see the kid walking off the bases the other day when he thought the game was over? He was wrong, so he was tagged out. And his team lost. That stuff happens all the time to kids. But he'll never forget it because of the pressure he was under, because it was on ESPN.

Kids should have balance. They should play baseball, climb trees, not be turned into professionals.

What kind of people are they developing now by putting kids on ESPN? The kind who cheat and want to use steroids. We know that high school kids are using; some states are already testing. So if 16-year-olds inject to keep up, then why not 12-year-olds who have a chance for a showcase on ESPN. Their parents will buy.

It's coming. It's set up perfectly.

They keep running corny commercials playing old-time music and tapping our Little League memories, depicting it as a neighborhood-volunteer thing. What a startling contrast from the coverage. This isn't brought to us by volunteers but by Tony the Tiger and the Colonel.

Here's the mission statement on the Little League Web site: ''[To] promote, develop, supervise and voluntarily assist in all lawful ways, the interest of those who will participate in Little League Baseball and Softball.''

How about, ''To provide an educational and healthful activity for kids in a wholesome environment.'' I made that up in 10 seconds. You can interpret the real one this way: To do whatever it takes as long as it's legal.

The Oregon team is an all-star group from a local league. There are rules governing how long seasons can be. So the league cut back its usual season so that its all-stars could practice together more. Understand? All the other kids in the league, the ones not on ESPN, were given practice time, fewer games to play.

It was in the rules, done in ''lawful ways.'' It hurt most of the kids so that a few could get glory.

What did that teach? Is this the new Americana?

_________________
Homer: "Asleep at the switch"? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!
Bart: I believe you, Dad.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:47 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:51 am
Posts: 377
Location: Springfield, ??
Quote:
Kudos to Sun-Times' scribe Greg Couch for his August 23, 2006 article about ESPN and the Little League World Series. I personally find ESPN's coverage of this event to be appalling, and "for the love of God, please change the channel" television. It was cute when ABC used to televise the final game. Now it seems so over the top. Are there not presently enough professional sports, Poker, and spelling bees to fill time on the network?


It helps if you post the article.

_________________
Homer: "Asleep at the switch"? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!
Bart: I believe you, Dad.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 3273
Location: Woodstock (not the trailer part)
pizza_Place: Jobu
Thank you Ozmodiar. I am afraid that I do not currently possess that level of computer proficiency.

Thus far, merely being able to log on to this fine web site has been a source of great pride for me.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:08 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:51 am
Posts: 377
Location: Springfield, ??
Ask and you shall receive.

Stoney it's easy, try Ctrl-C to copy and Ctrl-V to paste.

_________________
Homer: "Asleep at the switch"? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!
Bart: I believe you, Dad.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:19 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
i think it's cool as hell....and if i was 12, i'd be all about getting on t.v.
any kid that is good enough to play 80 organinzed games in a summer wants to do just that regardless of what mommy and daddy want.

kids making errors or making mistakes are going to remember them forever......not b/c the mistakes were broadcast on ESPN.

Greg Couch's article sounds like it was written by guy who was regularly picked last in gym class.

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:56 pm
Posts: 309
Amen. Pressure has been put on kids from parents since the dawn of time. Now TV can catch it, so it's like it was never happening before. If I'm a kid and I can play ball, spit and curse on national tv in a highly competitive environment, then what the hell is wrong with that?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
It's cool for kids but creepy for any non parent who is interested in it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 3273
Location: Woodstock (not the trailer part)
pizza_Place: Jobu
Doug, I had to laugh when I read your last comment. The article does read like it was written by a bitter gym class outcast.

However, my focus was not on whether 12 year old boys want to be on ESPN. Of course they do. Rather, my main point was that I don't find it to be compelling television.

In that regard, Good Dolphin set forth my point far better than I did.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:20 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
well.....as a little league vet who played in state regionals, i think it's more interesting to watch than say....i don't know...
Cubs baseball
Hockey
WNBA
Early round golf coverage
pre season Football
etc...

the announcers actually announce, there's a no-hitter going for 4 innings every game, most games are won by one run....
i don't know. i think it's cool. it's fun and i've been watching it every year it's been on t.v.

dolphin, is it creepier than the 40 yr. old male Michelle Wie fanatics?

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:04 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 5039
Have any of the radio hosts or writers criticized any of the LL players or coaches for their play on the field? A few years ago Silvy did that...trashed a kid and a coach. Anybody else joining that broadcasting Hall of Shame?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
doug - evergreen park wrote:
dolphin, is it creepier than the 40 yr. old male Michelle Wie fanatics?


I would say that it most definitely is.

Little League baseball has as much relevance to 99.9% or the world as the result of last night's Madden 07 matchup between me and the computer in my basement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:31 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 5039
good dolphin wrote:
doug - evergreen park wrote:
dolphin, is it creepier than the 40 yr. old male Michelle Wie fanatics?


I would say that it most definitely is.

Little League baseball has as much relevance to 99.9% or the world as the result of last night's Madden 07 matchup between me and the computer in my basement.


Since when is relevance a criterion for ESPN programming? Most of the stuff on most of the ESPN TV networks is irrelevant.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:13 am
Posts: 455
Location: My computer
How about that dickhead coach from the Lemont/Homer Glen team who did the happy dance, fist punch thing along the base line after their last win?

The kids were classier than he.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:01 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
he was fisting...
o.k., so a bit over the top. but, they just won a game that made them one of the 8 "best" teams in the world.

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:00 pm
Posts: 173
I must say that I had a good laugh reading the posts that defend ESPN and the Little League. Greg Couch's article was right on the money. It didn't sound one bit like a guy picked on in gym class. I realize that times and attitudes change, but they don't necessarily change for the better.

Sure, there have been bad baseball parents. I'm 40 years old and saw some terrible behavior by parents when I played little league. However, the incindents that occurred were few and far between compared to today. The "win at all costs" mentality is ridiculous. Our league required all players to play at least three innings (in a six inning game) and get at least one at bat. That is only fair for both the YOUNGSTER giving of his time and desire to play and the PARENTS who are paying the fees for the league. This little league world series rule of only playing three outs and one at bat throws the fun aspect out the window and places the emphasis on strictly playing to win. I'm all for trying to win, but at what cost? What about the coach during a recent regional (I believe) who forgot to put one player into the game and would have had to forfeit the win (his team was up by three runs) so he instructed his players to give up the three runs to tie the game so the kid could get in. The opposing coach realized what was happening and told his players to swing at all pitches regardless if they were balls or strikes. Yeah, that's a good lesson to teach the youngsters.

And what about ESPN's hand in all of this? The costs the parents take on to have their kid play is tremendous, but while they are signing checks to pay for hotels, meals and travel, ESPN is cashing checks with huge dollar amounts ( not to mention the unpaid time off of work parents are missing) without a hint of giving back. Dan Wetzel of Yahoo! Sports wrote an article a few days ago about this very subject. The increased amount of games covered by ESPN (which is presented by Kellogg's Frosted Flakes which won a huge bidding war for the rights) puts more money into their pockets without anything going back to the players except the chance to be on tv. Nothing like exploiting the kids to make a buck. Before you decide to rip on my use of "exploiting" remember that the kids have talked about how they think they are treated as professional athletes by signing autographs and getting free stuff. The only difference is, the money paid out by the networks to cover professional sports goes to pay their SALARIES. For the Little Leaguers, they get shirts, hats and bats--nice trade off.

The parents of the players say it is worth the financial investment and time off work to see their child experience playing in the tournament. That is great, but their is still exploitation going on by the network. By the way, ESPN has done a number of stories on bad parents and problems with youth sports. They've cited reasons such as pressure to win, parents living out their failed athletic careers through their children. They've ended these stories saying that what's missing is playing for the love of the game and remembering that these are just kids. Well, ESPN is very hypocritical because they are promoting this type of behavior by broadcasting these, and now, high school football games nationwide--all for the sake of making a buck.

I played youth, high school and college sports and I think Couch's article was right on the money. Those of you who take the other side seem to only be of the mindset of win at all costs. On the high school level things do change and I was accepting of that. Kids could be cut, even if you made the team you weren't guaranteed of playing--I could deal with that. But, on the youth level there is no excuse for the actions taken by coaches, parents and now television networks. When ABC used to televise the championship game that was fine--but now they treat it like the NCAA basketball tournament.

As I wrote before, I know that times and attitudes change, but do they change for the better? Instead of trying to right the wrongs, we have people spinning things to justify actions that are only done for self interest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:36 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:08 am
Posts: 1358
pizza_Place: Marinos-EGV
Can i get the cliffnotes version of the last comment Chip? Thanks.

_________________
Bob Loblaw wrote:
Also is a good alternative if the cock on cock contact in men's mma makes anyone uncomfortable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:46 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:00 am
Posts: 1730
Location: Pappyland
These coaches are really creepy. They might as well be preists or boy scout leaders


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:12 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
i just like watching the games.

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:00 pm
Posts: 173
EG Greg wrote:
Can i get the cliffnotes version of the last comment Chip? Thanks.


Sorry about getting a little "wordy". I wanted to make sure the point I tried to make came with examples.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
doug - evergreen park wrote:
i just like watching the games.


Sitting on a sofa
Eyeing little boys with bad intent.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:50 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
see i worry about you dolphin.....
everything with you on this topic comes back to pedophilia or you envisioning me having such thoughts.

that seems a bit odd to me.

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
I find it creepy whenever grown men are heavily into young people's sports that they have no reasonable nexus to.

You cannot like the games because of the quality of baseball. That begs the question, why do you like it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:14 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
i believe it was made pretty clear in earlier posts.
quality of baseball....no hitters are boring aren't they?
2-1 games decided by plays in the last inning...boring as hell.

watching games on t.v. is not "heavily into" anything.
now, if i had a Lemont IL. jersey made from Triple Threat Sports in Mokena and traveled across country to watch kids that are not related to me in any way, then you could be concerned.

but, since that is not the case, stick to your anime reality for your entertainment, and don't concern yourself with my viewing preferences.

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
You asked, my sensitive friend?

Devoting several hours on several days is too into it.

No hitters in MLB are exciting because it is a rare feat against what is recognized as the best players in the world. No hitters in little league occur commonly. They hold no excitement.

I guess i will have to read your earlier posts on this topic because I cannot understand what mindset makes these games watchable.

Anime? My mind is not creative enough to be aroused by a cartoon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:44 am 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
all your opinions...

so, don't watch college basketball....b/c those 18 years olds aren't "grown men" yet.
or MLS soccer, b/c of that teenager Freddie Adu running around.....
What about College Football....does that count? They are "big kids."
and that Bryan Anderson sure is baby faced isn't he? He's not a grown man yet is he?
So, I guess I'll just read a book.....

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
Anderson is 24

I understand your point with college sports, however, it generally is atheletes who are at or near the top level of any person playing that sport in the world. Why is college baseball not as popular as football or basketball? I would say because it is understood that college baseball is a far shine away from displaying the best players in the world.

I go to Loyola U basketball games because of a nexus. It would be fairly pathetic to go because of the quality of the play.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:22 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 28635
Location: computer
pizza_Place: Salerno's
so, why can't my nexus be that I (like most people on this board, I suspect) played little league baseball?
why can't it be that simple?

dolphin....you and I should attend a UIC-Loyola game this year.

_________________
@audioidkid
spaulding wrote:
Also if you fuck someone like they are a millionaire they might go try to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 80165
doug - evergreen park wrote:
so, why can't my nexus be that I (like most people on this board, I suspect) played little league baseball?
why can't it be that simple?

dolphin....you and I should attend a UIC-Loyola game this year.


Or 2. Loyola should be good this year.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:40 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 5039
I don't watch little league baseball, but I won't cast any aspersions on those who do. Just as I won't cast aspersions on people who watch poker, women's golf, auto racing or any other activity that might be on TV. However, I am amused by people like Boers and Dolphin who do cast aspersions and judgements on people who have different viewing habits than they.

Dolphin apparently only watches the major sports involving professional or college athletes because in his world they are "relevant" and not "creepy". Ok, we get it. Like all things, a healthy dose of skepticism and cynicism, in moderation, is ok. Too much of it and you start to paint yourself as being a bit creepy yourself. But hey...it apparently works for Boers, so more power to the Dolphin if he is trying to emulate TB's view that the world outside his dank basement is "creepy".


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group