The top 4 sports players of all time are obvious to me. There could be a debate about how you rank them but here's my list. Ironically, the top 4 cover all of the 4 major sports in America.

1. Babe Ruth

2. Wayne Gretzky

3. Michael Jordan

4. Tom Brady

I still have a hard time calling someone the greatest ever when they never played against the best athletes because an entire segment of the population was banned from playing.

That's dumb. Ruth played against more great players than any current player does. Baseball and boxing were the only professional sports. Every top American athlete played baseball. If you're going to argue that Ruth didn't have to face Andy Cooper, that's true. But I would argue that today's Andy Cooper is quite likely to be playing some other sport than baseball along with today's Pete Alexander and others. Walter Johnson might have been a pro skateboarder if he were born in 1987 instead of 1887.

There were dozens of top line players that were excluded that could've replaced a few one time champ like Johnson. Hell, by 1920 John McGraw had lists, if not binders full of them .

Home Run Baker? Three Finger Brown. Tinkers. Evers. Chance? Mythology is all they have or had going.

There were dozens of top line players that were excluded that could've replaced a few one time champ like Johnson. Hell, by 1920 John McGraw had lists, if not binders full of them .

Home Run Baker? Three Finger Brown. Tinkers. Evers. Chance? Mythology is all they have or had going.

Tinker is really the only guy in that group that rode to the Hall of Fame on mythology. That isn't the point though. The argument is that Ruth somehow faced watered down competition. It was no more watered down than it is today. Just for different reasons. If you want to argue that from 1950-70 was a golden age, I have no problem with that. The guys that played in that 20 year span undoubtedly faced tougher competition than the players in Ruth's time or the guys today.

Lotsa sacrificial lambs and tomato cans throwing up beachballs in the Negro Leagues. 1/4 black Babe Ruth would smoke the Negro League for 1000 dingers

Iirc, the MLB players had losing records in the lucrative barnstorming winter games vs. Negro leaguers. So much so that Landis tried to outlaw the games to prevent the embarassment.

Talk about mythology!

I'm not sure he even hit that many but he lead the league 3 or 4 times.

I just think it's a bad argument to try to diminish Ruth that way. You never hear anyone make the opposite argument- though Nardi sorta did in this thread - that Gibson and Charleston were less than great because they didn't face the white stud pitchers.

I'm not sure he even hit that many but he lead the league 3 or 4 times.

I just think it's a bad argument to try to diminish Ruth that way. You never hear anyone make the opposite argument- though Nardi sorta did in this thread - that Gibson and Charleston were less than great because they didn't face the white stud pitchers.

There were more stud pitchers. It's just a fact. To say Gibson would get 962 HRs in MLB is quite a reach.

That's dumb. Ruth played against more great players than any current player does. Baseball and boxing were the only professional sports. Every top American athlete played baseball. If you're going to argue that Ruth didn't have to face Andy Cooper, that's true. But I would argue that today's Andy Cooper is quite likely to be playing some other sport than baseball along with today's Pete Alexander and others. Walter Johnson might have been a pro skateboarder if he were born in 1987 instead of 1887.

Funny thing is that I'd still seriously put Ruth at the top, over Gibson and Mays, certainly when his pitching is considered.

Only having to play 154 games, none at night, with good transportation and hotel stays plus guaranteed checks, I'd still bet he'd have finished with many more than 714.

Ya know what, let's do this the opposite way.

Let's say Mike Trout was born in 1900. Didn't have the advantage of baseball training growing up like they didn't back then. I think they played stick ball in the alley back then when they were kids. No organized little league.

They don't get the instruction or proper training on how to play the game like they do now. No drugs or proper nutrition advice back then. No such thing as weight lifting back then. No gyms or trainers.

Most of those guys had to have jobs in the off season. They would work at their parents farm or whatever they did. Couldn't hit in the batting cages all off season. They didn't have batting cages back then.

So Mike Trout, as a 20 year old, comes to MLB in 1920.

Is Trout gonna be equal to Ruth in that era. I don't think so.

Ruth played organized baseball at 8 years old. All the priests at St Mary's were baseball fiends. So put Mike Trout there.

4x the population in this country than when Ruth played. Factor in no Blacks, Cubans, Ricans, Dominicans, Venezuelans, Mexicans, Koreans, Japanese. Colombians.. The talent pool is ridiculously more talented currently.

I agree, and I was surprised to hear Joe Orr call this argument dumb. The baseball playing world just contains more people than it did in Ruth's time, even if a smaller percentage of those people are trying baseball.

I feel like I'm at the barbershop in Coming To America

Only having to play 154 games, none at night, with good transportation and hotel stays plus guaranteed checks, I'd still bet he'd have finished with many more than 714.

Only having to play 154 games, none at night, with good transportation and hotel stays plus guaranteed checks, I'd still bet he'd have finished with many more than 714.

I never watched any of these guys play baseball but Ted Williams numbers always amazed me. The fact that he spent 3 years in his mid-twenties in the service took away what would have been even better numbers. Babe Ruth played in a very exclusive time when 1/3 of the league was nicknamed rube and one of the better pitchers had 3 fingers. His number are great but I think that in a different era they would have be slightly less impressive.