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| 1-2-19 Happy New Year! http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=115746 |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Is there a more Bernsteinian take than "Buddy Ryan left and the defense got better?" Mc Doink tried to come to his rescue with the typically pedantic qualification that "they were statistically better." Dan lived through that era. He knows that on paper they were better (as we were told ad nauseum at the time) but the reality was they were not a better defense. They were no longer feared nor respected like they were under Buddy. It would be like comparing Lovie's very good defenses to the 2018 defense. While the point is statistically supportable it reveals absolutely no sophistication with the subject matter. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
They were only "better" if you use yardage against as the criterion. They certainly weren't better and bernstein is well aware. I have to start spelling his name without a capital again if he's going to try stupid "hot takes" like that. You know, you hear a lot of stupid shit about the "greatest of all time" or the GOAT as the kids like to say. The truth is, it's something that doesn't really exist. And the dumbest is that slogan on Jordan's statue, "The best that ever was. The best that ever will be." Just idiotic. There is one exception to that rule- the '85 Bears defense. |
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| Author: | billypootons [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
am i to infer from GD's post that these idiots are telling us that fangio leaving is not a big deal? i wonder if at the time when Nagy was hired and news broke fangio would be staying if they had the same take? |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
billypootons wrote: am i to infer from GD's post that these idiots are telling us that fangio leaving is not a big deal? i wonder if at the time when Nagy was hired and news broke fangio would be staying if they had the same take? He said he had no fear or Fangio leaving. |
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| Author: | billypootons [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
good dolphin wrote: billypootons wrote: am i to infer from GD's post that these idiots are telling us that fangio leaving is not a big deal? i wonder if at the time when Nagy was hired and news broke fangio would be staying if they had the same take? He said he had no fear or Fangio leaving. i bet we can hire mel tucker away from UGA and he'll be able to run the same system edit: i see mel got the head job at colorado |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
The proper statistic for a defense is opposing quarterbacks knocked out of the game, preferably in the first half. Danny White. Joe Ferguson. End of discussion. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote: The proper statistic for a defense is opposing quarterbacks knocked out of the game, preferably in the first half. Danny White. Joe Ferguson. End of discussion. You know, you hear fans all the time talking about guys "instilling fear" in opponents, e.g. Bob Gibson. I saw Gibson pitch. Nobody was afraid of him. Nobody was afraid of Nolan Ryan. Nobody is afraid of Chris Sale. The guys they face are all professionals too and they didn't get to that level by being afraid. Randy Johnson was an outlier. A lot of lefties definitely were afraid of him. Some to the point where they wouldn't face him. But that's a rarity. The same thing at the top level of any sport. Guys don't get there by being afraid. But quarterbacks were terrified of the '85 Bears defense. And that ain't no fuckin' myth. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote: The proper statistic for a defense is opposing quarterbacks knocked out of the game, preferably in the first half. Danny White. Joe Ferguson. End of discussion. You know, you hear fans all the time talking about guys "instilling fear" in opponents, e.g. Bob Gibson. I saw Gibson pitch. Nobody was afraid of him. Nobody was afraid of Nolan Ryan. Nobody is afraid of Chris Sale. The guys they face are all professionals too and they didn't get to that level by being afraid. Randy Johnson was an outlier. A lot of lefties definitely were afraid of him. Some to the point where they wouldn't face him. But that's a rarity. The same thing at the top level of any sport. Guys don't get there by being afraid. But quarterbacks were terrified of the '85 Bears defense. And that ain't no fuckin' myth. The Doberman defense the early 90's Bulls instilled fear as well. Especially in halftime locker rooms where they knew it was coming. |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Knocking out QBs isn't fear. It is efficiency, as the backup QB is generally much worse. Does Nate Sudfeld strike fear in the hearts of Bears fans? |
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| Author: | Peoria Matt [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote: Knocking out QBs isn't fear. It is efficiency, as the backup QB is generally much worse. Does Nate Sudfeld strike fear in the hearts of Bears fans? He's gonna wish he was back at IU after Sunday. Prediction?........PAIN |
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| Author: | Tad Queasy [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
The rules changes have guaranteed that no defense will ever be as feared as the '85 team's defense was. You simply can't hit QBs like that anymore. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote: Knocking out QBs isn't fear. It is efficiency, as the backup QB is generally much worse. Does Nate Sudfeld strike fear in the hearts of Bears fans? That's the thing about the '85 Bears though. It didn't matter who was in the game. Eason, White, and Ferguson, etc. weren't effective anyway because they were dropping loads in their pants while Marshall, Wilson, Hampton, Dent et al came flying at them with fury in a manner that isn't even allowed in today's game. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
I was 5 and 6 years old at the time, what was the major difference between 85 and 86 Defenses? |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
rogers park bryan wrote: I was 5 and 6 years old at the time, what was the major difference between 85 and 86 Defenses? I think Tobin didnt play as much 46, so they were a bit more passive. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
badrogue17 wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: I was 5 and 6 years old at the time, what was the major difference between 85 and 86 Defenses? I think Tobin didnt play as much 46, so they were a bit more passive. Ah, ok. I was thinking they got rid of Marshall after 85-86 but he was still there. So basically the same personnel. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
badrogue17 wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: I was 5 and 6 years old at the time, what was the major difference between 85 and 86 Defenses? I think Tobin didnt play as much 46, so they were a bit more passive. Also, I think the offenses adjusted a bit. The Bear defense was still great, they actually allowed less yardage, they just weren't quite as fearsome as they were in 1985, especially in the second half of the season. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
86 Defense allowed fewer points as I remember. 85 Defense played against better offenses though. 85 was much more feared. Tobin played a lot of zone defense. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
long time guy wrote: 86 Defense allowed fewer points as I remember. 85 Defense played against better offenses though. 85 was much more feared. Tobin played a lot of zone defense. Took the soul out of that unit. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Regular Reader wrote: long time guy wrote: 86 Defense allowed fewer points as I remember. 85 Defense played against better offenses though. 85 was much more feared. Tobin played a lot of zone defense. Took the soul out of that unit. Killer part was that he had Todd Bell (pro bowler in 84 who held out in 85) and Al Harris also a holdoutin 85 back. Still was less feared. |
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| Author: | Godfella [ Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote: Knocking out QBs isn't fear. It is efficiency, as the backup QB is generally much worse. Does Nate Sudfeld strike fear in the hearts of Bears fans? That's the thing about the '85 Bears though. It didn't matter who was in the game. Eason, White, and Ferguson, etc. weren't effective anyway because they were dropping loads in their pants while Marshall, Wilson, Hampton, Dent et al came flying at them with fury in a manner that isn't even allowed in today's game. To JORR's point... A couple years ago I saw a documentary about the '85 Bears. Honestly don't remember which one, there were several out at the same time within a couple months of each other. Anyway, they were interviewing Danny White and a clip ran of him being injured by a a Bears blitz. I think it was Otis Wilson who hit him and knocked White out of the game. White commented that he just had a recent surgery of many due to that hit/injury over the years. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 1-2-19 Happy New Year! |
I don't want to lose the point thought that Bernstein knows all this but he had to throw in a gratuitous point that he does not even believe just to piss people off on his first show of the year |
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