Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Dave In Champaign wrote:

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Let's just stop this "See! BernSTINE was WRONG" silliness.

You should make this your sig.

Wanna address the rest of my statement, or do you want to imply that I'm not critical of this show? (which is bullshit)

Watch out Kid, he might get all pseudointellectual on you.

Kid started it. I was with you from the beginning.

James Harden had a historic couple of games to start the season. If any of you thinks this guy is an elite player suddenly, y'all need to watch more basketball. He's a good player. He's not gonna score 30-40 points per game. Let's just stop this "See! BernSTINE was WRONG" silliness.

Thanks KS. So much for having my back.

I agree that he's not Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon. Those were just asinine thoughts that Goff would've corrected them on.

It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said.

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

I don't know if that's fair to everyone. I watch alot of NBA and haven't listened to Boers and Bernstein since the Penn State story broke. I just like coming in here and reading about what they say and reacting to it. If anything I think that the entirety of Bernstein's analysis on Harden came 100% from watching the finals last year where he was admittedly spotty against a super athletic D. Besides the finals last year how many Thunder games do you think Dan has watched? Or for that matter Boers?

It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said.

and absolutely licked OKC

FullyBaked wrote:

and absolutely licked OKC

Houston really lucked in to this thing. They had Gasol for about a day.......with the intent of then signing Nene too.

Oklahoma City just couldn't afford all those huge contracts in the market they're in.

FavreFan wrote:

Keeping Score wrote:

That's not necessarily true. They made a profit of roughly $35 million last year in a shortened season.

Why did they move Harden then?

Phil McCracken wrote:

FullyBaked wrote:

and absolutely licked OKC

You're getting KS and Peeps excited.

I think they may have gotten a little pissy with Harden when he wouldn't take the hometown discount like Westbrook did. I'm even of the understanding that Durant and Ibaka each accepted somewhat of a discount when they inked their deals.

FavreFan wrote:

Keeping Score wrote:

That's not necessarily true. They made a profit of roughly $35 million last year in a shortened season.

Why did they move Harden then?

Terry's Peeps wrote:

Keeping Score wrote:

That could be. They obviously didn't see him as a max deal guy.

You're awfully short today. Don't be surprised when I show up at your door and lightly slap that stupid orange thing out of your mouth.

FavreFan wrote:

Oh ok, missed that. That seems pretty fair to me, I don't think it was a hometown discount.

I didn't consider that part KS, but I don't consider that a hometown discount. There's certainly no guarantee that Westbrook makes an All NBA team this year.

Fair enough.

How do you feel about Ibaka at $12 mil a year?

Author:	Dave In Champaign [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: The Original Kid Cairo wrote: Dave In Champaign wrote: The Original Kid Cairo wrote: Let's just stop this "See! BernSTINE was WRONG" silliness. You should make this your sig. Wanna address the rest of my statement, or do you want to imply that I'm not critical of this show? (which is bullshit) Watch out Kid, he might get all pseudointellectual on you. Not quite sure what this means.

Author:	Dave In Champaign [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: Kid started it. I was with you from the beginning. I knew there was something special about you.

Author:	The Original Kid Cairo [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Sorry Dave. KS, you are such a frontrunner. If I were getting jumped on in an alley, you'd probably join in.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: James Harden had a historic couple of games to start the season. If any of you thinks this guy is an elite player suddenly, y'all need to watch more basketball. He's a good player. He's not gonna score 30-40 points per game. Let's just stop this "See! BernSTINE was WRONG" silliness. This isn't hindsight Kid. I watch a ton of basketball. I said from the first second that Bernstein was flat wrong and that he was a total dumbass for comparing Harden to guys like Jamal Crawford and Ben Gordon. And I was right. Of course Harden isn't gonna average 40 a game. That's ridiculous. But he's 23, almost a lock to be an All Star, worthy of the contract he got, and someone you build your team around. Again, not hindsight after his first two awesome games. I said this the moment Bernstein started bitching inaccurately that Harden was just a 6th man.

Author:	The Original Kid Cairo [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
I agree that he's not Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon. Those were just asinine thoughts that Goff would've corrected them on. It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said.

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Author:	SomeGuy [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: Thanks KS. So much for having my back. Get a fucking room. Harden will avg. around 20pts 6 assists and 6 Reb per game when all is said and done. He is the go to guy now or as NBA Expert Jason Goff would say, "That Dude." Haters gonna hate and lovers gonna love.

Author:	SomeGuy [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: I agree that he's not Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon. Those were just asinine thoughts that Goff would've corrected them on. It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said. That's what it may look like to you but it certainly isn't the truth.

Author:	Phil McCracken [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: I agree that he's not Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon. Those were just asinine thoughts that Goff would've corrected them on. It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said. I don't know if that's fair to everyone. I watch alot of NBA and haven't listened to Boers and Bernstein since the Penn State story broke. I just like coming in here and reading about what they say and reacting to it. If anything I think that the entirety of Bernstein's analysis on Harden came 100% from watching the finals last year where he was admittedly spotty against a super athletic D. Besides the finals last year how many Thunder games do you think Dan has watched? Or for that matter Boers?

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: I agree that he's not Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon. Those were just asinine thoughts that Goff would've corrected them on. It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said. I think the MVP comment was silly. Other than that, I don't think any comments were overly harsh towards Bernstein. Trivializing Harden as just a decent 6th man was one of the dumbest things Bernsie has ever said. Harden is one of the 20-25 best basketball players in the league. He's going to be a franchise guy. Unless people are now calling him a top 5 player, nobody is overrating him. We are all just laughing at how enormously Bernstein underrated him. Sorta like how every time I see a Chiefs score I laugh a little inside at Hub, I will now do the same with Harden. I couldn't believe Bernsie, a self-proclaimed huge NBA fan, felt so strongly about such a stupid opinion. He deserves everything he gets about Harden from now on, in the same way that Hub deserves to have that Chiefs super bowl pick thrown in his face every time he talks about knowledgable insiders.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Phil McCracken wrote: The Original Kid Cairo wrote: I agree that he's not Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon. Those were just asinine thoughts that Goff would've corrected them on. It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said. I don't know if that's fair to everyone. I watch alot of NBA and haven't listened to Boers and Bernstein since the Penn State story broke. I just like coming in here and reading about what they say and reacting to it. If anything I think that the entirety of Bernstein's analysis on Harden came 100% from watching the finals last year where he was admittedly spotty against a super athletic D. Besides the finals last year how many Thunder games do you think Dan has watched? Or for that matter Boers? That's a great point. There's not a doubt in my mind that Harden's Finals performance was the sole determining factor in Bern's opinion. That's how he operates.

Author:	FullyBaked [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: It just looks like folks here (not you Farvio) are rushing to overrate him solely because of what Bernstein said. Nah, not for me anyway.. I watch a lot of basketball, and I've always thought that given the chance to be 'the guy' that he would shine. He was imprisoned by that moron Scott Brooks for way too long. He's a left handed 6'5 playmaking shooting guard that can handle the ball,defend, shoot the 3 and finish at the rim.. He doesn't have to average 40 a game. or even 30 a game, and hes still a better player to build your franchise around over a guy like Melo. Hes worth every penny they gave him, and absolutely licked OKC in that trade.

Author:	SomeGuy [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Great stuff so far, fellas. Harden, even as a 3rd option, was avg. 17/4/4 in around 30min per game. He can play solid D, is big and pretty athletic and can shoot the 3 at around 40%. The Thunder were blessed to have the depth and the ability to have a true #1 as their 3rd option. Harden will blossom now that he is the main man.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
One last Bernsie note, and I said this before he played a game this season, Bernsie said the problem is Harden didn't have an elite skill. This proves to me that Bernsie doesn't really watch much basketball. Harden is one of the best guards in the league at taking the ball to the rim. He's right below Rose and Westbrook in that regard. Maybe as good as Westbrook. That has been demonstrated throughout the first two games. If teams can corral that, and make him shoot contested jumpers, he will come back down to earth a bit. The Pistons and Hawks rarely double teamed him, and the Pistons have nobody who can remotely guard the rim. Once he runs into good teams that can take away his best strength, we will see whether or not he's just a decent All Star, or if he is indeed going to be a superstar. But his floor is perennial All Star or All Star snub/top 25 guy. We don't know his ceiling yet. We'll have an idea by April.

Author:	RFDC [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Harden is a very good player. But it has been 2 games. I am not convinced he is a guy you can build a team around though. But I sure do wish the Bulls had him going forward as a running mate with Derrick

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Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: Houston really lucked in to this thing. They had Gasol for about a day.......with the intent of then signing Nene too. Oklahoma City just couldn't afford all those huge contracts in the market they're in. That's not necessarily true. They made a profit of roughly $35 million last year in a shortened season.

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: FavreFan wrote: Keeping Score wrote: Houston really lucked in to this thing. They had Gasol for about a day.......with the intent of then signing Nene too. Oklahoma City just couldn't afford all those huge contracts in the market they're in. That's not necessarily true. They made a profit of roughly $35 million last year in a shortened season. Why did they move Harden then? I think they overreacted to his Finals performance.

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: I think they may have gotten a little pissy with Harden when he wouldn't take the hometown discount like Westbrook did. I'm even of the understanding that Durant and Ibaka each accepted somewhat of a discount when they inked their deals. That could be. They obviously didn't see him as a max deal guy.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: FavreFan wrote: Keeping Score wrote: Houston really lucked in to this thing. They had Gasol for about a day.......with the intent of then signing Nene too. Oklahoma City just couldn't afford all those huge contracts in the market they're in. That's not necessarily true. They made a profit of roughly $35 million last year in a shortened season. Why did they move Harden then? I don't know. I know Clay Bennet has really deep pockets and wants to win a title, and I know the team was one of the most profitable in the league last year. So it wasnt because of money. I think they either misevaluated Harden, which is sorta hard to believe, or they just really liked the trade offer. Kid is right that Martin is a damn good player. He is a better jump shooter than Harden and the thing with the Thunder last year that rarely got talked about is they had a lot of spacing issues. Martin helps with that and gives them a more versatile look on offense. And rumor is that Presti was really in love with Lamb since pre-draft. So I think they decided that they'd simply rather have Martin and Lamb than just Harden. The interesting thing to see will be what they do with Martin going forward. I believe he's either an UFA or RFA after this season.

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Keeping Score wrote: I think they may have gotten a little pissy with Harden when he wouldn't take the hometown discount like Westbrook did. I'm even of the understanding that Durant and Ibaka each accepted somewhat of a discount when they inked their deals. That could be. They obviously didn't see him as a max deal guy. You're awfully short today. Don't be surprised when I show up at your door and lightly slap that stupid orange thing out of your mouth. That's an orange. I need my vitamin C.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: I think they may have gotten a little pissy with Harden when he wouldn't take the hometown discount like Westbrook did. I'm even of the understanding that Durant and Ibaka each accepted somewhat of a discount when they inked their deals. Durant is a hell of a guy. He took almost a $20 million discount. I'm pretty sure they gave Westbrook a max contract. I don't think he took a discount. Has Ibaka inked an extension already?

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Oh ok, missed that. That seems pretty fair to me, I don't think it was a hometown discount. I didn't consider that part KS, but I don't consider that a hometown discount. There's certainly no guarantee that Westbrook makes an All NBA team this year.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Keeping Score wrote: FavreFan wrote: Oh ok, missed that. That seems pretty fair to me, I don't think it was a hometown discount. I didn't consider that part KS, but I don't consider that a hometown discount. There's certainly no guarantee that Westbrook makes an All NBA team this year. Fair enough. How do you feel about Ibaka at $12 mil a year? my post was poorly worded. That first part pertained to Ibaka, the second to Westbrook. I think it's completely fair. Ibaka has potential to be a max guy, especially defensively, but he's in a perfect situation. He's the kind of guy that needs to be the 3rd guy on a contender, offensively he can't be a top 2 guy on any good team. I just wonder how much better he can get defensively. He could be one of the top 2-3 defenders in the league for the next 10 years. Maybe even the best. He's that good on that end.

Author:	FavreFan [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Another thing on Harden, I think there's a great chance that he went to Presti and asked respectfully to be traded. He seems like a good dude and I don't think there's any ill will. That's why he didn't to to the media with it. I think he realized he was being held back with the Thunder and wanted to prove to himself and everyone else that he can be The Guy on a contender. A lot of people are calling him greedy because of the $4-5 million difference in contracts over four years, but I'm leaning the opposite. I think it was all about him wanting to maximize his potential and I think there's a good chance he handled it about as classy as any star player has in recent memory.

Author:	Curious Hair [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 11/1 Sixth Man Appreciation Day
Re: Oklahoma City and budget problems: This isn't the NHL. NBA teams get so much central revenue that with merely decent local revenue streams, they can compete just fine. In the case of Oklahoma City, they're a one-team town with maxed-out individual/corporate support, a rich owner, and a sweetheart deal with the city to siphon off non-basketball revenue from the arena. They're never going to be able to spend like Mark Cuban, no, but they're not going to have the Sisyphean existence of, say, the Oakland A's, where out of sheer necessity their homegrown players are cycled out for prospects right on the cusp of forming a long-term core. Short answer: they're fine