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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:33 am 
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they'd have an argument if the Cubs traded Marmol because they had Wood. But I think Marmol is as untouchable as they come.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:50 am 
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I think this is a reallly I mean really bad idea .
I like the guy seems like an okay joe but this has me scared bad real bad


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:45 pm 
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on a serious note; has anyone considered that who finishes the games might be overrated? I mean half the teams don't have even have legitimate closers, and many of the stud closers are on teams that are going nowhere...

I seem to remember Bobby Thigpen saving 57 games on a team that went nowhere, and Lee Smith, he saved plenty of games for teams that finished in the cellar.

As long as they can lock down the games from the 7th on, does it really matter who gets the last out?


Oh wait, i know why people want a closer... it's easier to know WHO TO BLAME !$%@!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Much better with your serious note.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:54 pm 
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closer is totally over-rated. anyone who comes out of the pen in a close game needs to get outs, not just the "closer". it is just as important in the 7th as it is in the 9th. it just hurts to watch an implosion more in the 9th.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:00 pm 
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When the Sox won in '05 they had 3 guys that served as closer throughout the year.

Out of spring training it was "Mr Zero" Shingo Takatsu, then when he started serving up more gophers than Caddyshack, they dusted Hermanson off the trainers table and he did the job to the tune of 30+ saves... then wehn rosters expanded, they brought up the big boy Bobby Jinx and rode him down the stretch and into the WS.


Just ride the hot hand, at least they got horses in the stable!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:06 pm 
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woody looked great again today, 1.2 scoreless, hitless innings. the whole bullpen looks pretty good, pignatiello with another clean outing. looks like he is good to go, especially with eyre being hurt.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
I'm shocked after the initial blowup that Marquis won the 5th spot outright. His first bad outing combined with Lieber mopping up 4-6 innings in relief effectively will bring the debate out again.


I think they made this decision based upon a few factors.

1) Marquis did have a good spring, and has a history of starting the year strong.

2) It's probably difficult to trade Marquis, who I believe has 2 years (including this season) left on his contract for about $7 million a season. He's just not a very good starter.

3) Jon Lieber was upset last season in Philadelphia about being moved to the bullpen, but this year said he'd be ok with it because he knew it was a possibility. On the other hand, Marquis didn't take well publicly to not being a starter so combine Lieber's comments with points one and two, and they have a solution for the start of the season.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:35 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
I'm shocked after the initial blowup that Marquis won the 5th spot outright. His first bad outing combined with Lieber mopping up 4-6 innings in relief effectively will bring the debate out again.


If Marquis pitches in the Spring like he does historically, the debate will die down again till the All Star break. Im pretty sure by season's end Wood wont be the closer though.


Marmol would have been my closer, but they seem trying to milk everything they can get out of Wood. At least they have good alternatives should Wood struggle or get hurt.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:35 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'd like to see Wood be effective pitching 3 days in a row...or 10 days out of 12.


Probably being a bit unrealistic with those expectations. :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He doesnt strike me as a good closer.

Out of curiosity, what are your criteria? He's got a killer fastball, a great slider, good curve. He's got a great WHIP when he's healthy, which he appears to be. He's got plenty experience (IMHO the only "real" advantage over Marmol) What's he missing at this point?


Obviously, Wood's durability is my #1 concern, but my biggest concern with Wood is his control. You can't walk people in that role, and I also don't want Wood throwing extra pitches, and overextending himself because of plate issues.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:06 am 
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BD wrote:
Darkside wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He doesnt strike me as a good closer.

Out of curiosity, what are your criteria? He's got a killer fastball, a great slider, good curve. He's got a great WHIP when he's healthy, which he appears to be. He's got plenty experience (IMHO the only "real" advantage over Marmol) What's he missing at this point?


Obviously, Wood's durability is my #1 concern, but my biggest concern with Wood is his control. You can't walk people in that role, and I also don't want Wood throwing extra pitches, and overextending himself because of plate issues.


those are reasonable concerns. however, all he can do is try to improve on those things, and he has had great control this spring. if he had been wild all spring that would be one thing, but he hasnt. i dont think you can not give him the closers job because he MIGHT be wild and walk guys. like it has been said several times already, the worst that can happen is that it doesnt work, and you move someone else into that position if it starts costing you games.

as far as having wood pitch in 10 out of 12, that is a ridiculous expectation. if it gets to the point where he is having to save 10 out of 12 games, you bring someone else in to spell him. i dont think ANY closer is expected to handle that kind of workload.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:11 am 
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the way marquis has pitched, i think he clearly won a spot in the rotation. i still think, at least early in the season, dempster is the weak link of the 5 starters. he has looked good though, too. i am just worried about dempster handling THAT workload more than wood handling the closers workload. dempter hasnt started in a long time, and he wasnt that effective, even when he was young before he got hurt. im not bad-mouthing the guy, he has been pretty useful for the cubs, and i hope he gets off to a good start.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:43 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
BD wrote:
Darkside wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He doesnt strike me as a good closer.

Out of curiosity, what are your criteria? He's got a killer fastball, a great slider, good curve. He's got a great WHIP when he's healthy, which he appears to be. He's got plenty experience (IMHO the only "real" advantage over Marmol) What's he missing at this point?


Obviously, Wood's durability is my #1 concern, but my biggest concern with Wood is his control. You can't walk people in that role, and I also don't want Wood throwing extra pitches, and overextending himself because of plate issues.


those are reasonable concerns. however, all he can do is try to improve on those things, and he has had great control this spring. if he had been wild all spring that would be one thing, but he hasnt. i dont think you can not give him the closers job because he MIGHT be wild and walk guys. like it has been said several times already, the worst that can happen is that it doesnt work, and you move someone else into that position if it starts costing you games.

as far as having wood pitch in 10 out of 12, that is a ridiculous expectation. if it gets to the point where he is having to save 10 out of 12 games, you bring someone else in to spell him. i dont think ANY closer is expected to handle that kind of workload.


I'm not upset about Wood being the closer, but I would have preferred Marmol. I do believe Wood has the ability to be a fantastic closer. We'll just see if his health allows him to stay in that role. I'm a doubter in that regard until he proves otherwise.

As for pitching 10 times in 12 days, Lou would get fired for doing something like that. A pitcher doesn't pitch more than 2 straight days during the regular season under normal circumstances, and with Howry and Marmol on the roster, I'm sure the Cubs will be smart about not overusing Wood.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:25 am 
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i love what marmol did last year, i really like him and he has a ton of ability. i just dont agree with moving him to the closers role. i think we can all agree that the bullpen was pretty good last year, with marmol and howry leading into dempster. well, dempster is a starter now, so that leaves a hole. simply plug woody in where dempster was, and leave the rest of it alone! it worked just fine last year, and wood i think may be a pretty big upgrade from dempster. i dont want to experiment with marmol. i want him coming in with guys on base and putting out fires. i dont want to save him for the save opportunity that may never come. i want him killing rallies before they can start.

if wood gets hurt, or sucks, or starts losing games and costing the team, re-evaluate. thats the good news, at least right now, the cubs are dealing in strength, they have lots of guys to go to if it all just doesnt work.


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