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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:07 pm 
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Article excerpts from Dec.8.2015 (7 days before Cubs sign him)

Jason Heyward figures to be the best-paid player on this year's free agent market, but managers and executives don't think the 26-year-old outfielder will prove to be worth what it will take to sign him

Of the 39 position players to have signed contracts worth $100 million or more, Heyward will become the first outfielder to do so without ever scoring or driving in 100 runs.

Much of his WAR value comes from his superlative defense—even though as a corner outfielder, he averages only 1.7 chances per game over a season.

“We never paid for defense,” said one executive who was a general manager in the 1990s. “I would tell agents, ‘We don’t pay guys for defense.’ And nobody ever tried.”

However, one common concern I heard about Heyward was the odd way he swings the bat. He sets up as if he were hitting in a phone booth, with his hands tight to his body and his elbows in. He has almost no load with his hands, opens his front hip early, prefers to get his hands away from his body and spins so hard on his front foot that sometimes the outside of his ankle hits the ground. Heyward is much better hitting pitches down and away than pitches in and pitches up. He clubs at the ball more than he swings at it.

He hit a career-high number of ground balls this season

“He scares me,” said one manager. “With that swing, there is a possibility that you sign him to that contract and he just doesn’t hit. That’s a scary possibility. When you sign someone for that kind of money, you want to feel pretty sure what you’re going to get. I don’t think you know what to expect. That swing is so raw. It did get a little better this year, but it’s still raw.

“I’ve seen the metrics. When you look at those numbers, and you see the guys he’s compared with, I just don’t see it.”


Here’s another manager: “That swing scares me. I think you can tie him up, and I don’t see where the power is going to come from, even with his size. Don’t get me wrong. I like him. There’s a lot of things he can do. But he’s not an impact bat.

“I don’t think we’re the kind of team that can afford him. I wish we had that kind of money. But at the same time, if we did have that kind of money, I’d be scared.”

“I don’t see it. When you sign a guy at those dollars you want the kind of hitter who’s going to hit third or fourth in your order. I don’t see that with him. Really, is he any better than what Paul O’Neill was?”

It was a good question. And it turns out that after the same point in their careers—835 games—Heyward and O’Neill are very much alike:

O’Neill drew raves as a solid complementary player—who hit third most often. The complaint that Heyward is not a middle-of-the-order hitter was a common one among the men who make out lineups for a living. Here’s another one:

“I like him, but I like him only as a complementary player,” said a manager. “He doesn’t hit the fastball really well. You can get the ball in on him. To me, if you’re going to be spending that kind of money, you want somebody who’s going to hit in the middle of your lineup. He’s not that kind of hitter. He’s a complementary type player


Heyward has made only 22% of his career starts in the third or fourth spots in batting orders. He most often has hit second. Since 2010, he has hit like Walker, the Pittsburgh second baseman who is a good complementary player

Another knock on Heyward is that he does not hit lefthanders, though he did improve some in 2015 by hitting for average against them (.272) but not power (.364 slugging). Among all active players with at least 1,000 plate appearances against lefties, Heyward ranks 117th of 124 with a .351 slugging percentage

Here’s another manager on Heyward: “The problem with Jason Heyward is that the things you value the most about him now are the things you are not going to have at the back half of the contract: youth and defense. Over time, those only get worse. I would love to have him on a high [average annual value] over a short period of time—give me just his best years—but that’s not going to happen. If I did have him, I would bat him second or fifth, not in the middle. He’s not that kind of hitter. Listen, I get the metrics. I really do. But let’s remember, he’s a corner outfielder. He doesn’t play in the middle. You better love, love, love corner outfield defense to sign him.

“I’m still an old-school kind of guy,” said one executive. “I know RBIs are not the be-all and end-all, but they still matter. [Heyward] doesn’t have that kind of track record. I’ve looked at him, and I am very, very interested in how this turns out.


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:50 am 
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Jed Hoyer is making thinly veiled references to the Heyward contract. Hinting he wasn't in on it. There's no need to bring up intelligent spending in future strategy. Isn't that a given?

“We plan to be really active in free agency,” Hoyer said. “We plan to spend money intelligently …. Obviously we’ll be active in free agency but we want to do it in a thoughtful and intelligent way.”
-Jed Hoyer


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:57 am 
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Yeah, that sounds like they’ll be doing 2-yr deals.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:55 pm 
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vitoscotti wrote:

I watched Franco at AAA Durham three times this spring. The only minor leaguer I've been fortunate to have seen in person who was so obviously better than anyone else on the field was a 23 year old Magglio Ordoñez in 1997 at Nashville.

Franco was just effortless (in the good way) both in the field and at the plate.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:26 am 
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Worst JHK article yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:42 am 
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Heyward left plenty to be desired in 2021. His .275WOBA ranked in the bottom six percent of the league

If say 300 players had enough ABs to qualify for the list. He would rank 282 out of 300. Cubs MVP tanking asset in '21. Helped immensely giving the Cubs draft pick #7 with his weak dribblers to the right side


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:41 pm 
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Forbes (Phil Rogers) 12-28-21

In addition to the salaries owed him, his deal with the Cubs included a deferred signing bonus. He will receive $5 million a year on April 1 in 2024-27.


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:56 pm 
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CubbiesCrib 3-24-22

Of the 60 qualifying right fielders from 2016-21, Heyward ranks 56th in wRC+


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:53 pm 
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Bit disappointed with Ron Coomer on M & H talking about JHK. He may be pressured by corporate mandate. Very uncharacteristically blatant ass-kissing. He and JD are usually silent about JHK which speaks volumes.

He's given speeches to help the team win a world series. He's always been a professional. You've never heard anything from him, or his camp that he's disappointed. He's taken responsibility for everything that's been good, or bad. As far as the professionalism of Jason Heyward it's never been questioned. It never will be questioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:01 pm 
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not an incorrect opinion, though

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:07 pm 
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I would smile and show up for everything if I was being paid 25 mil to be one of the biggest dogshit players in baseball. There is no excuse for them putting him in the lineup every day and especially his new home of CF where he is not good defensively anymore. The money is spent If he block Davis from being on the big league club for one fucking day I am going to be very unhappy with the ownership, front office and the ass kissing company man Ross.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:14 pm 
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SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
not an incorrect opinion, though


JHk is part of the 99% of MLB players that are highly professional. Wow!


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:02 pm 
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LOL @ Vito's surprise over Coomer. If you're looking for a critical Cubs take, Coomer should be your last choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:58 pm 
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vitoscotti wrote:
SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
not an incorrect opinion, though


JHk is part of the 99% of MLB players that are highly professional. Wow!


im not going to ever be in the camp that is mad the Cubs signed Jason Heyward. I watched Milton fucking Bradley play right field for the Cubs and listened to endless apologists for his bullshit. I can be happy with Heyward overall and frustrated or pleased at his plate performances game to game.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:00 pm 
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Who Apologized for Milton Bradley? That dude might be the most universally hated Cub ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:02 pm 
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was outside Wrigley after watching a game and there was a group of morons with a petition for a "We Support Milton Bradley" club.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:06 pm 
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SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
was outside Wrigley after watching a game and there was a group of morons with a petition for a "We Support Milton Bradley" club.

A group of morons on one day was your "endless apologists"?

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:07 pm 
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SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
vitoscotti wrote:
SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
not an incorrect opinion, though


JHk is part of the 99% of MLB players that are highly professional. Wow!


im not going to ever be in the camp that is mad the Cubs signed Jason Heyward. I watched Milton fucking Bradley play right field for the Cubs and listened to endless apologists for his bullshit. I can be happy with Heyward overall and frustrated or pleased at his plate performances game to game.

Read the article excerpts I posted (top this page or bottom previous) written 7 days before the Cubs signed Heyward.


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:13 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
was outside Wrigley after watching a game and there was a group of morons with a petition for a "We Support Milton Bradley" club.

A group of morons on one day was your "endless apologists"?



they were loud. and didnt stop for as long as i could hear them, your Honor.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:53 pm 
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SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
was outside Wrigley after watching a game and there was a group of morons with a petition for a "We Support Milton Bradley" club.

A group of morons on one day was your "endless apologists"?



they were loud. and didnt stop for as long as i could hear them, your Honor.


Id take Bradley over Heyward in any situation I needed a hit, Bradley was on the team one season..this sack of shit is on year 6 already with more to come..been untradeable since week one.

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Last edited by 312player on Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:56 pm 
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Cub fans are idiots ad infinitum :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:59 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Cub fans are idiots ad infinitum :lol: :lol: :lol:


Sox aint going anywhere, I take solace in that.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:29 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I would smile and show up for everything if I was being paid 25 mil to be one of the biggest dogshit players in baseball. There is no excuse for them putting him in the lineup every day and especially his new home of CF where he is not good defensively anymore. The money is spent If he block Davis from being on the big league club for one fucking day I am going to be very unhappy with the ownership, front office and the ass kissing company man Ross.

He is only in CF right now because Happ hurt his arm and is only DHing at this point. Heyward and Ortega are alternating games in CF.

Davis will be up eventually but probably not until near the trade deadline, as he is not on the 40 man yet. Davis will be starting in CF once he comes up, similar to how Starlin Castro played nearly every day after Jim Henry brought him up from AA.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:24 am 
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Fascinating the propaganda machine is pounding leadership, and outfield defense, defense, defense. Both Seiya & JHK are highly intelligent former gold glove winners. It's being portrayed JHK leadership is masterminding this earth-shattering transition that is absolutely amazing.

Again though, no talk of the JHK mechanically defective swing that makes it virtually impossible for success. Could you imagine the intense chatter and analysis if SS swing had turned out to be mechanically defective this spring?


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:48 am 
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I watched a little of the game yesterday and I thought he looked painfully slow in center and I can't believe they are going to hit him 6th, good luck with all of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:33 am 
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SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
was outside Wrigley after watching a game and there was a group of morons with a petition for a "We Support Milton Bradley" club.

I thought it was bad when we brought in Burnitz. Then Jones. Then Fuk. Then Bradley. Then Fuk again. Then a revolving door of bad.
Now Heyward. It's been a long time since we had a good RF.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:28 am 
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SuperNintendoHjalmarsson wrote:
was outside Wrigley after watching a game and there was a group of morons with a petition for a "We Support Milton Bradley" club.


That's not a nice thing to call Caller Bob and Hockey Gay. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:00 pm 
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His first AB, FC on a fruity little tapper back toward the first base side of the mound.
This guy sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Heyward sucks
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:22 pm 
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Sounds like the JHK is playing a huge role in 5-time Japanese League gold glove winner Seiya Suzuki's outfield play. Apparently JHK overrides the outfield coach, and the sabermetrics geeks data positioning of outfielders now. I don't ever remember a skilled defensive corner outfielder requiring such non-stop knowledge spoon-feeding from a player bypassing the people paid to point him in the right direction not tuck him in at night. I'm thinking it's all bs?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yah ... 02242.html

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