IB its not just one singular game. Its a TOURNAMENT. Like Rick said, the regular season is basically trimming the fat, so the most qualified contestents can compete for logical/practical reasons. The Giants won their conference tournament, Pats likewise. They met up to determine the final champion of both conferences, in otherwords the league. The Giants were the best team in the NFC and the Pats were the best in the AFC. I agree the teams are very close, I never said either was definitely better. They were 1-1 and tied even in total score. But the Giants won the tournament, they are the champs. That makes them better then the Pats. They were the best team in the league. And I do disagree with the 50% thing, Im fairly certain they would have won a 7 game series against the Pats, but thats an irrelevant and unneeded debate.

This concept is even more pronounced in football and baseball, where IMO, upsets simply do not happen. The better team will always win a 7 game series. There is no fluke play or something along those lines that the losing team can blame the loss on. One of my biggest pet peeves in sports is when a losing team's players, coaches, or fans say "We were the better team, we shoulda had them, they got lucky, if we played this 10 times we would win the other 9, etc, etc." It's just a lousy defense mechanism that looks bad. If they were the better team they would have won the game. We have a system setup to determine the champion in each sport. I guess we just disagree that the champion is the best team. I think thats obvious. You think its not and a fair amount of time they were "lucky".

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

you think this is over? it's just started...here he comes with the MATH...

Im not missing that at all, I just dont agree with it. The best team any given year is the team that beats out every other team and wins their sport's respetive championship.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Then why hold that to be true for just the playoffs. Does the best team always win, period? Is the team that wins better just on the basis that they won? That can't be true; the best teams don't go undefeated.

Besides, fluke plays and all the rest of it make a difference all the time. If Amante Samuel catches a floating pass with three minutes left, the Pats win. Would that one play have made them a better team than the Giants, where previously they were worse? Of course not. Likewise, a basic principle of sabermetrics is that beating a bad team by a lot is more indicative of quality than beating a good team by a little. The reason for that is simple; if a football team wins by 3, any fluke play- a fumble at a bad time, a poor call by an official, an interception, anything- could have changed the result. If you win by 42, it won't matter. That's why, when projecting a team's ability for the following year, the points scored for / points scored against ratio is more predictative than the record itself. If what you said was true, that wouldn't hold.

Here's another example; follow this one through slowly (I'm not saying that to be pretentious; I think the point is complicated, and I'm may not express the idea well.) Think of the 1991 NBA Finals; the Lakers won game one, and the Bulls won games 2-5. The NBA series is best of seven, so the Bulls won. But what if the NBA finals were sudden death, like the NFL playoffs. Would the Lakers have been the best team in the NBA that year? If so, how could that be, since the teams haven't changed at all? If not, how could it be that the worse team won the championship, since under your system that's not possible? And under your system, whatever system is divised to determine a champion will always determine that champion successfully, so long as there is a tournament involved.

no, and notice how frank had no response to this

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I have very little use for "Why is Mac so Angry?"- My Bitch(Mr. Reason)

That would clearly lead to a paradoxical situation. If the Vikings beat the Bears, Bears beat the Packers, and Packers beat the Vikings, it would be impossible to determine who is better. Thats why I dont consider the regular season analogy the same. My thinking is simple, and I dont blame you for disagreeing, but its how I feel.

1.) The regular season determines the most qualified candidates to compete for the title.

2.) The playoffs are where said teams compete for "Best team of that season" AKA the Championship. To me, if you win that tournament, you are the best team.

3.) Your Lakers example is impossible to say because its not a 1 game thing. If it is, maybe the players play with more urgency, maybe Phil Jackson doesnt take all game to realize Scottie can shut down Magic, etc. Too many variables, unknowns, and what ifs?



Thats one of the things I have a problem with people saying. "Well the Pats woulda won if Tyree didnt have a once in a career catch, or if Asante, a great CB, woulda just held onto that one ball, or if Eli didnt miraculously escape that rush, etc, etc." Bottom line is all those things did happen, and the Giants outplayed the Pats and won the game.

Im guessing you think the Rams in 2001 were better than the Pats that year too(Spygate aside, lets not go there). Or the 2004 Lakers were better then the 2004 Pistons? Im guessing you think the 2002 Mariners were the best baseball team in history? Thats why I hate the BCS so much. It's predicated on the same logic as yours... let's presume who the best team is based on the regular season instead of doing it the logical, objective way: Let them decide themselves on the field.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

yes, i am sure lou piniella breathed a deep sigh of relief missing tulowitzski's .152 average and hawpes .231. holliday is bona fide, that was a break.

Rams- Yes
Pistons- Don't know, basketball retarded
Mariners- Absolutely not. Regular season record doesn't always show the best team either.

I think that's what's so difficult to accept for lost of sports fans- if the championship team isn't always the best team, then it's hard to say who the best team was sometimes. That's true, but I'm not saying we should change the record books or anything like that. I'm just saying that if I could bet on the Super Bowl 100 times at even money, I'd expect to make money on the Patriots.

As for the BCS, I think I've hashed out that argument before, but in short, I'd rather have the BCS than a 16-team playoff, though I'd rather have a 4-team playoff than either.

So the regular season record doesnt determine the best team, and the playoffs dont determine the best team. So pretty much its just completely subjective and if I want to say the Packers were the best team in the NFL last season, I'm neither right or wrong? I guess I can go with that logic on some level, but it would just cause way too much arguing. Thats why I dont understand why all sports fans dont accept the method we have of determining the best team of any given season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Why? We don't have to agree; that's half the fun. I think it has to be subjective in the end. I do think that the regular season provides a better marker than the playoffs, at least in football and baseball, but not a foolproof one. It's subjective in the end. that's the fun of sports arguments.

I agree, trust me, I find arguing fun too. But yeah on the whole "Whos the best team of the past season" I pretty much always go with the team with the trophy. Im not even just saying thats the only reason, usuaully I feel like the better team won. I dont think the Giants got lucky. They were even the more depleted team. They almost beat the Pats in Week 17. I the Giants were the better team that season. Maybe not weeks 1-9, but the second half of the season the Pats were clearly a different team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

::FavreFan sleeping::

...no...NO! champion...ship...teams...best...ever...NO, irish boy ih...WRONG...

honey wake up...wake up...

NBA FINALS...like...van gundy a lot...he...DETERMINES CHAMPIONSHIP...

honey--

::FavreFan awakens in a cold sweat; his mother by his side...::

Mother: It's all right, dear, it was only a dream.

FavreFan: Mom? I...it was horrible...no one knew--no one knew how to determine the best team in the league...there was this...this awful man, this...Irish Boy he called himself...kept...telling me these bad things--

::Mother embraces FavreFan::

Mother: Oh dear, honey, my little FavreFan Man...oh, don't worry now--you're awake. Don't you see? We have playoff systems that determine who the best team is.

FavreFan: But...so...it's not subjective?

Mother: No, dear. Now go back to sleep. You were drinking a lot of Bud Light last night.

FavreFan: I know...late Cubs game...

Mother: I thought you were a Sox fan.

FavreFan: I like both teams, mom.

Mother: You must still be dreaming, honey...you can't like both teams...

FavreFan: Wha--

::Mother takes off her mask revealing face of Mike North::

Mike North: DAT'S RIGHT!!

::Pyscho music plays::

FavreFan: NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have only one thing to say about the 2005 Sock World Series, I had to pay off a 25 year old bet adjusted for inflation.
That fucking sucked. Not because of the money, but because of the ball busting that came along with payment. So kiss my fucking ass and print it.

All I have to say is, he who laughs last, laughs best. I hope to laugh just once, someday.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

There's not enough todescribe this post. Post of the year, by far. Too damn funny. Kudos Zach!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Frank was busy this weekend, and did not have time post under his one and only name, let alone mults. The Giants were the better team. They have the rings and a trophy to prove it.

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