Sabathia

Darkside · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:36 am

I'm not letting one pitcher psyche me out, and I hope the Cubs hitters don't either.

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:50 am

Sabbathia is a high quality pitcher, who will likely be motivated to pitch better than he had so far this season, by joining a winning club. I had pointed out earlier this season, what a tough division this was, with the Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers all having very good teams. Some idiots like FarveFag, scoffed at the Brewers. If they had a top closer, as they had last year, they would be an even tougher opponant. However, that remains their weakness. I am hopeful, that Hendry can make a good deal and am not altogether convinced he might not still revisit the Brian Roberts deal. He's a top leadoff man and though DeRosa has done a fine job, the Cubs would certainly benefit from a guy who can steal 50 bases and put pressure on the opposing teams defense. The great thing about the N.L. Central race, is that the Cubs get to face the Cardinals 9 more times and the Brewers 10 more times. So they really can control their own destiny.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:00 am

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Sabbathia is a high quality pitcher, who will likely be motivated to pitch better than he had so far this season, by joining a winning club. I had pointed out earlier this season, what a tough division this was, with the Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers all having very good teams. Some idiots like FarveFag, scoffed at the Brewers. If they had a top closer, as they had last year, they would be an even tougher opponant. However, that remains their weakness. I am hopeful, that Hendry can make a good deal and am not altogether convinced he might not still revisit the Brian Roberts deal. He's a top leadoff man and though DeRosa has done a fine job, the Cubs would certainly benefit from a guy who can steal 50 bases and put pressure on the opposing teams defense. The great thing about the N.L. Central race, is that the Cubs get to face the Cardinals 9 more times and the Brewers 10 more times. So they really can control their own destiny.

at this point, im not trading for roberts. this team needs starting pitching, not hitting.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:05 am

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I had pointed out earlier this season, what a tough division this was, with the Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers all having very good teams.

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Just because they are a winning ballclub in AAAA doesnt make them a great team.

Darkside · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:07 am

FavreFan wrote:

Just because they are a winning ballclub in AAAA doesnt make them a great team.

This is getting to be a stupid argument.
I am tiring of it.
And it comes from the fan with a team that has Cleveland and KC in their division.
Who the Sox fans crappin? Yeah, we got Pitts, you got KC, we got Cincy, you got the Indians.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:10 am

Darkside wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Just because they are a winning ballclub in AAAA doesnt make them a great team.

This is getting to be a stupid argument.
I am tiring of it.
And it comes from the fan with a team that has Cleveland and KC in their division.
Who the Sox fans crappin? Yeah, we got Pitts, you got KC, we got Cincy, you got the Indians.

The interleague record speaks for itself. I wasnt just comparing divisions, but leagues also. Despite the records, Im not convinced the NL Central is better then the AL Central, although it's clearly the best division in the NL.

Darkside · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:14 am

FavreFan wrote:

The interleague record speaks for itself. I wasnt just comparing divisions, but leagues also. Despite the records, Im not convinced the NL Central is better then the AL Central, although it's clearly the best division in the NL.

MattInTheCrown · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:18 am

Evidently, it's some "iron law of baseball" that an NL Central team other than the Cubs pulls off the big trade of the summer every year. Christ, it's like fucking clock-work.

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 56008

FavreFan wrote:

The interleague record speaks for itself. I wasnt just comparing divisions, but leagues also. Despite the records, Im not convinced the NL Central is better then the AL Central, although it's clearly the best division in the NL.

Do you see the contradiction in your statement? Records matter in the interleague, but they do not matter in the division?

Yup, never let facts get in the way of a good opinion.

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:30 am

Lets wait and see how Sabathia does with the Brew Crew, and what moves Hendry makes before the end of the month, before getting too excited. Sabathia may well have a big impact. But if he pitches like he has so far this season, it may not be that significant. But it does remind one of the year Randy Johnson went to Houston. But that was McFail who was in charge back then. Hendry will counter.

Hey FarveFag-for a guy who claims to have me on his "ignore list" , you sure can't seem to help replying to my posts. :lol:

RFDC-nice point, except when has he had a "good opinion"?

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:31 am

RFDC wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

The interleague record speaks for itself. I wasnt just comparing divisions, but leagues also. Despite the records, Im not convinced the NL Central is better then the AL Central, although it's clearly the best division in the NL.

Do you see the contradiction in your statement? Records matter in the interleague, but they do not matter in the division?

Yup, never let facts get in the way of a good opinion.

I think you are confused. The facts are the AL dominated the NL once again in interleague play. The Royals even did great against the NL. Of course records matter in the division, when comparing teams in the division. They dont necessarily matter as much when comparing leagues though. The Brewers are a good team, but I doubt they would have as good a record as they do if they had to play in the much tougher AL. The AL vs. NL thing isnt meant to diminish the Cubs, I think they are one of the best teams in baseball. I just dont see how anyone can look at all the numbers and the facts, and say the divisions and leagues have the same level of talent.

City of Fools · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:42 am

the Cubs need not worry about the Brewers, they just need to continue to do what they have been doing for the most part, which is winning series. the Cards will drop eventually, leaving the Cubs either the division or the wild card...

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:44 am

City of Fools wrote:

the Cubs need not worry about the Brewers, they just need to continue to do what they have been doing for the most part, which is winning series. the Cards will drop eventually, leaving the Cubs either the division or the wild card...

Im not sure about the Cards dropping, I think they have a decent team. I agree the Cubs and their fans shouldnt be too worried about this move. I like the Brewers for going for it, but I'd be very surprised if the Cubs dont win the division. As of right now I think they have the best team in the NL.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:47 am

i mentioned this in a previous thread, but i will offer this up again:

the AL may well have a better level of talent. i wont argue for or against that. but the AL does have a significant (in my opinion) advantage in inter-league play in AL parks on that they have a no-fielding, high-payed slugger specifically designed and paid to hit in the center of a lineup and drive in runs. the DH is a major part of an AL teams offense. the NL team uses their best bench player, or rests an everyday player and makes him DH and puts in a reserve at the position. it is a clear advantage to the AL team. the games in the NL parks are a more neutral determination of a teams strength. both teams bat the pitcher, and the NL team does have an advantage in this regard, since some pitchers hit better than others, but for the most part, both teams are working with a pitcher in the lineup, which is much more even than the DH hitting in an AL park. the AL, more often than not, should have a better record in inter-league play.

Darkside · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:50 am

FavreFan wrote:

Im not sure about the Cards dropping, I think they have a decent team. I agree the Cubs and their fans shouldnt be too worried about this move. I like the Brewers for going for it, but I'd be very surprised if the Cubs dont win the division. As of right now I think they have the best team in the NL.

their bullpen raises questions. Get their starters out of the game and you're likely to do well.
Also, Wellemeyer?

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 56008

FavreFan wrote:

I just dont see how anyone can look at all the numbers and the facts, and say the divisions and leagues have the same level of talent.

Fair enough.

So if the AL Central is tougher and full of more talent, where would the Sox be right now if they were in the NL Central? Would they be walking away with the division? Would the Twins dominate the division? Would the Tigers be at the top of the heap?

City of Fools · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:01 am

each is entitled to their own opinion, but the Cards are held together by gum and baling wire. of course, they were that way when they won the Series, as well, but I think they'll fade.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:04 am

RFDC wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

I just dont see how anyone can look at all the numbers and the facts, and say the divisions and leagues have the same level of talent.

Fair enough.

So if the AL Central is tougher and full of more talent, where would the Sox be right now if they were in the NL Central? Would they be walking away with the division? Would the Twins dominate the division? Would the Tigers be at the top of the heap?

I think the Twins and Sox would be competing neck and neck with the Cubs for the division. Im not sure what the Tigers would be doing, they've been a weird team to figure all year.

Darkside wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Im not sure about the Cards dropping, I think they have a decent team. I agree the Cubs and their fans shouldnt be too worried about this move. I like the Brewers for going for it, but I'd be very surprised if the Cubs dont win the division. As of right now I think they have the best team in the NL.

their bullpen raises questions. Get their starters out of the game and you're likely to do well.
Also, Wellemeyer?

No doubt, they are another weird team. Their SP's lead MLB in wins but they also have the most blown saves in MLB. I dont consider them a serious threat to the Cubs, but I think they'll be in the WC race down the stretch.

Keyser Soze · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm **Posts:** 16923

man of few opinions wrote:

i mentioned this in a previous thread, but i will offer this up again:

the AL may well have a better level of talent. i wont argue for or against that. but the AL does have a significant (in my opinion) advantage in inter-league play in AL parks on that they have a no-fielding, high-payed slugger specifically designed and paid to hit in the center of a lineup and drive in runs. the DH is a major part of an AL teams offense. the NL team uses their best bench player, or rests an everyday player and makes him DH and puts in a reserve at the position. it is a clear advantage to the AL team. the games in the NL parks are a more neutral determination of a teams strength. both teams bat the pitcher, and the NL team does have an advantage in this regard, since some pitchers hit better than others, but for the most part, both teams are working with a pitcher in the lineup, which is much more even than the DH hitting in an AL park. the AL, more often than not, should have a better record in inter-league play.

That's all fine and dandy except the NL was 55-70 at home this year. The AL is simply better. The Yankees and Red Sox have upped the ante so much that other teams HAD to improve to compete. The worst AL teams would be .500 (or above) teams in the NL. The best NL teams would be .500 (or below) teams in the AL. It has little to do with the DH and everything to do with pitching.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:28 am

i am not denying that the AL is currently better, simply pointing out that inter-league play favors the AL in AL parks, and they should consistently have a better record than the NL. NL parks should, over time, be a more even record depending on the strength of one league over another.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:31 am

man of few opinions wrote:

i am not denying that the AL is currently better, simply pointing out that inter-league play favors the AL in AL parks, and they should consistently have a better record than the NL. NL parks should, over time, be a more even record depending on the strength of one league over another.

Well there's also the fact the AL hasnt lost an All Star game in 11 years.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:33 am

FavreFan wrote:

man of few opinions wrote:

i am not denying that the AL is currently better, simply pointing out that inter-league play favors the AL in AL parks, and they should consistently have a better record than the NL. NL parks should, over time, be a more even record depending on the strength of one league over another.

Well there's also the fact the AL hasnt lost an All Star game in 11 years.

there are many solid arguments that can be made that the AL is better than the NL. all-star game records arent one of them.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:35 am

man of few opinions wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

man of few opinions wrote:

i am not denying that the AL is currently better, simply pointing out that inter-league play favors the AL in AL parks, and they should consistently have a better record than the NL. NL parks should, over time, be a more even record depending on the strength of one league over another.

Well there's also the fact the AL hasnt lost an All Star game in 11 years.

there are many solid arguments that can be made that the AL is better than the NL. all-star game records arent one of them.

I dont know, I think it speaks to the talent level argument. 11 years in a row isnt a fluke. Seems very apparent the top talent from the AL is better then the top talent from the NL.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:40 am

FavreFan wrote:

I dont know, I think it speaks to the talent level argument. 11 years in a row isnt a fluke. Seems very apparent the top talent from the AL is better then the top talent from the NL.

again, i have never denied the AL to have the advantage, but until they start playing all-star games as though they are real games, where starting pitchers go more than 2-3 innings, and the whole lineup isnt turned over during the game (none of which will ever happen), the all star game will never be a true indication of who has the best all-star team. home field advantage hinging on the outcome of an exhibition game is ludicrous.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:42 am

and, while we are on that topic, why doesnt mlb just give the home-field advantage to the team with the best record, just like the nba? case closed.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:44 am

man of few opinions wrote:

and, while we are on that topic, why doesnt mlb just give the home-field advantage to the team with the best record, just like the nba? case closed.

I agree, thats stupid. That and the fact the leagues have different rules are two of the dumbest things in all of sports, not just baseball.

man of few opinions · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:50 am

yes, it would be much like if the NFL absorbed the CFL, created their own conference, and left the rules the same.

i am not a fan of the DH, but i think it wont be too much longer in my lifetime when you see the NL adopt it. it will be a sad day for fans of the NL, but it seems unavoidable. fat, injured or just plain out-of-shape players that cant field a position will eventually win out and get that career-extending roster spot on every MLB roster.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:51 am

man of few opinions wrote:

yes, it would be much like if the NFL absorbed the CFL, created their own conference, and left the rules the same.

i am not a fan of the DH, but i think it wont be too much longer in my lifetime when you see the NL adopt it. it will be a sad day for fans of the NL, but it seems unavoidable. fat, injured or just plain out-of-shape players that cant field a position will eventually win out and get that career-extending roster spot on every MLB roster.

That would suck. I really wish it would go the other way. I absolutely hate the idea of the DH.

RodeoVann · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:25 pm **Posts:** 3021

Living so close to the WI border, I tuned into 620am and they have pretty much declared the race over. I had to call and asked them if the brewers dont get in the playoffs and CC will walk, because the brewers wont pay him, they just gave up 3 top prospects, all 3 in the top 100, who gets fired?

Brewers have taken a huge gamble here on a guy who is 6-8 and his era just went under 4 in his last start. To me, the brewers would have been better served with a guy like Harden, who they could possibly resign, because they stand a very good chance of losing Sheets also to free agency. Brewers are going to regret this trade.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:23 pm

No. CC won the Cy Young last year for a reason-- he's a great pitcher. Not to mention he does not have to face the DH anymore. Harden cannot go over 100 pitches because of his injury history, while CC starts 28-32 games a year. CC was the best move to be made, and if he walks the Brewers could get up to 7 compensation draft picks.

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