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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Lets not blame Theriot either for not taggging up! he is hitting over .300 and his baseball IQ is 25 got that on Yahoo too!

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:59 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Whoa! For all you A-holes that liked the Harden trade because of Guadin I would never let him take the bump again. Blowing a 7-0 lead to the Midgets is not good..The 3 best teams in the NL are in the Central.Be very very afraid of the bullpen.


You are one pussy hair away from the foes list, dude. Go to Yahoo, read the line. And post afterward.

Marmol was the goat.

And I still say this may have been a win but not a victory. This was horseshit. Lou needs to get his head fucking checked and these guys almost need to have a goddamn 10 run lead in order to feel safe to win any game with this bullpen.

I know i'm ranting but here's my level headed thought: when marmol goes bad, it does seem like the whole bullpen has NO confidence.


oh please oh please don't put me on the foes list!

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:03 pm 
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enigma wrote:
What I don't understand if Wood is unavailable, why did Lou go thru his bullpen like its the 7th game of the WS.Gaudin pitched 2/3 of an inning and Cotts retired the only batter he faced. It would have bee nice to have Cotts or Gaudin in the 9th.



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Marmol has pitched 52 1/3 innings (including today's game) but what's more concerning is his 49 appearances in just 93 games. No other reliever(setup or mop-up guy) has been call upon as often as Marmol this season. I liken relief pitchers to guns - you only have a finite number of bullets regardless how big and/or strong said gun is and once the ammo runs out, it's game over. Pinella is gonna burn this guy out.


+1 +1

This was one of the most poorly-managed games I've seen in a long time. It was 7-0. You don't play matchups, you find guys to eat up innings.

The verdict is in now, if it wasn't already. Lou doesn't handle bullpens well. I'm tired of seeing Wood warm-up three times a night. I'm tired of seeing Marmol and Wood coming into 7-0 games. I'm tired of seeing, after the starter gets shelled, Leiber come out of a game in the 4th inning after retiring his first two batters because a lefty is due up. I'm tired of seeing endless patience with struggling position players, yet seeing Wuertz or Gallagher walk one guy and get read an F-bomb laden riot act on the mound.

Lou is an excellent manager, but his bullpen management is his weakness, and I really hope it doesn't cost the team in the end. The one good thing is, the fact that he manages every game like a playoff game actually works in his favor when it actually IS a playoff game. But the key is keeping those guys from dying before you get there. So far though, that's not looking too likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Walt...hows that 1.5 game lead going for ya? Twins win and sox lost tonight and its .5 game....rut oh, houston we have a problem. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know Walt......2005 :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:

oh please oh please don't put me on the foes list!


oh stop. i was just ranting...don't take me that seriously. :bom:


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:00 pm 
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Walt, stop being a pudwhack, a win is a win.
I bet you'd take a win tonight just like the Cub got this afternoon, huh?


Lou drives me crazy when he plays musical-pitchers. He seems to have trouble acutally using someone as a long man.
Marmol needs to be given some time off. Lou has overused him a great deal. He was Lou's toy for the first 2 1/2 months of the season and now he is showing the effects of the overuse.
Shut him down, now.

Lou has never been very good at managing a bullpen. Hell, no manager that wasn't a catcher, handles a bullpen efficiently.
The All-Star break can't come soon enough to suit me.

I was very close to a "these guys fucking blow" post today. I am glad I was able to keep it in my quiver, hopefully until after the break.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:04 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
Hell, no manager that wasn't a catcher, handles a bullpen efficiently.


Reason, I'll defer to your baseball knowledge. Why is it then that someone like Lou can't defer to Rothschild sometimes for in-game decisions on making pitching changes? It would seem to make sense. In football you have offensive and defensive coordinators. I would guess Rothschild probably shakes his head internally (pictures?) at some of Lou's decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:16 pm 
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i didnt see todays game, so i dont know how he threw, but i dont think marmols problem is being tired or overuse (although he definitely gets run out there a lot). his slider still has lots of movement, and his fastball has lots of pop. i think the league is getting wise to him, and they are sitting on that slider and either killing it, or letting it drop out of the zone and they are laying off. the slider doesnt look nearly as dazzling when you see it 75% of the time. it should be his hammer, the put-away pitch. marmol needs to re-adjust to how the league has adjusted to him. they guy is in love with that pitch, and the hitters are not fooled or wowed by it anymore. they are LOOKING for it, and killing the ones that are over the plate.

i think the guy needs a 3rd option, or just start varying the fastball a bit - 2-seamer/4-seamer, alter the speeds a bit. he is a 2-trick pony right now. if i were a hitter i would be sitting there looking for that slider in the zone early in the count, and laying off everything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:28 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
i didnt see todays game, so i dont know how he threw, but i dont think marmols problem is being tired or overuse (although he definitely gets run out there a lot). his slider still has lots of movement, and his fastball has lots of pop. i think the league is getting wise to him, and they are sitting on that slider and either killing it, or letting it drop out of the zone and they are laying off. the slider doesnt look nearly as dazzling when you see it 75% of the time. it should be his hammer, the put-away pitch. marmol needs to re-adjust to how the league has adjusted to him. they guy is in love with that pitch, and the hitters are not fooled or wowed by it anymore. they are LOOKING for it, and killing the ones that are over the plate.

i think the guy needs a 3rd option, or just start varying the fastball a bit - 2-seamer/4-seamer, alter the speeds a bit. he is a 2-trick pony right now. if i were a hitter i would be sitting there looking for that slider in the zone early in the count, and laying off everything else.


mofo you might be right, but I think his slider is still devastating when he's ahead in the count. But he rarely is anymore, as his control seems to have completely disappeared. Could be mechanical, but then again your mechanics can slip from being overused. Especially when you're a very young pitcher who came up as a catcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Heard on ESPN radio tonight that Wood will be unavailable for Sunday and the All-Star game, due to blisters.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:54 pm 
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I aint happy about the blisters, but glad he will be getting some extra rest for the 2nd half.

Cards just lost on a walk-off homer by the Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:59 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Cards just lost on a walk-off homer by the Pirates.


LaRussa must be pissed.

The Brewers lost too. Look at the standings; the Cubs are starting to pull away a little bit (yes I know it could change the other way quickly).


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:16 pm 
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It was a nice gift from the Pirates tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:17 pm 
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As for Lou I think he was trying to prove a point by leaving Marmol out there. Not sure if it was to Hendry or Marmol though.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:31 pm 
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OK so...in Mr. Reason's absence of the phrase, and maybe i used it a bit abusively...but I'll still say...THIS GAME FUCKING BLEW.

7-0, you win that game, no 9th inning, or extra inning close plays or theatrics...this was "total BS".

trust me i'm glad the cubs won but this wasn't something to be celebrated.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:35 pm 
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I see the Cubs are currently -145 going into tomorrows game. I'm not sure if thats a good thing or abad thing.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:45 am 
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W_Z wrote:
OK so...in Mr. Reason's absence of the phrase, and maybe i used it a bit abusively...but I'll still say...THIS GAME FUCKING BLEW.

7-0, you win that game, no 9th inning, or extra inning close plays or theatrics...this was "total BS".

trust me i'm glad the cubs won but this wasn't something to be celebrated.


On the plus side, at least when the Cubs blow a big lead, they still win the game. Unlike the Cardinals.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:15 am 
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The Bad- (1)Cubs bullpen was terrible, especially Marmol .(2) Theriot makes a stupid throw, when he should have just held the ball and given Marmol a chance to get the next hitter for the last out without the tying run scoring. (3) Harden does not get credit for the win, in a game he deserved a win.

The Good!- (1) The Cubs still get the win, rather than being deflated and hanging their heads, they stay mentally in the game and get the win after all. (2) The Cardinals lose and the Brewers lose, so the lead is up to 5 games. (3) Marshall was outstanding-both pitching wise, as well as getting a leadoff hit in the 11th to start the winning rally. (4) The Cubs, by virtue of winning the game, ensured another winning series, as they have already won the first 2 of the 3 game series and that has them back to 20 games over .500. With Dempster facing Lincecum today, it should be a good game. Lincecum is tough, but Dempster has had some great success at the Shrine this season (10-0) and hopefully, that will continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:20 am 
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The Ugly:

- Kerry Wood has a boo boo on his finger and will miss today and the All Star Game
- Carlos Marmol's 9.72 ERA over his last ten outings. 8.1 IP, 11 hits, 5 walks, 6 K's. WHIP of almost 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:36 am 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
The Ugly:

- Kerry Wood has a boo boo on his finger and will miss today and the All Star Game


man, with this guys checkered injury chart - i certainly don't mind him skipping the all-star game one little bit!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:34 pm 
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Nice throw by Johnson in the top half of the inning. Hopefully that run comes back to haunt the GIants today.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Guess it would of been better if he caught that foul ball.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:53 pm 
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that was a dumb game...i missed most of it but watched the beginning, they just didn't seem to want to win today.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
Hell, no manager that wasn't a catcher, handles a bullpen efficiently.


I think Ozzie Guillen handles a bullpen pretty well.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:38 pm 
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24_Guy wrote:
Look at the standings; the Cubs are starting to pull away a little bit (yes I know it could change the other way quickly).


*sigh* :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:05 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Mr. Reason wrote:
Hell, no manager that wasn't a catcher, handles a bullpen efficiently.


I think Ozzie Guillen handles a bullpen pretty well.


So does Ron Gardenhire. Both were infielders, not backstops.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:12 am 
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So Wood has a blister on his finger?
Is there more to this?

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs Vs. Giants
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:06 am 
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I doubt it. I think this is a somewhat common occurence among pitchers.

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