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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:59 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
i could see elmhurst steve saying the Cubs have had "some of the best 60 win teams of all time".



They probably do. 90% of the 60 win teams in history are probably the Cubs, so there's power in numbers :D

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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
W_Z wrote:
i could see elmhurst steve saying the Cubs have had "some of the best 60 win teams of all time".



They probably do. 90% of the 60 win teams in history are probably the Cubs, so there's power in numbers :D

Up yours, Tubby. There's power in numbers alright, just ask your scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
There's power in numbers alright, just ask your scale.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:29 am 
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W_Z wrote:
i could see elmhurst steve saying the Cubs have had "some of the best 60 win teams of all time".

+1 :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:20 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
what you just said isnt dumb-assed. what you just said seems like a pretty solid opinion that makes sense. that isnt what i was was commenting on.

i was commenting on the remarks you hear when an AL pitcher goes to the NL, that you can safely give them 5 extra wins, or chalk them up the cy young, or claim they will win 3 or 4 or however many more games than they have ever won in a single-season previously. it almost never happens, and it likely isnt happening with santana either. maybe sabathia will come over and dominate. time will tell.

when AL pitchers start coming to the NL and dominating and blowing away their previous career stats and racking up huge win totals and winning all of the cy young awards, i will become a believer in that theory. until then, i think it is a dumb-assed theory.


Ted Lilly

Looking at the argument from another angle, a guy like Maddux would no longer be in the league if he had to pitch in the AL.

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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:55 am 
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''Nothing's changed,'' Hendry said Monday. ''We're not going to change what we attempt to do based on CC going to the Brewers. It's been pretty apparent for a while that [Milwaukee] was one of the clubs he could go to.''


:roll:
good to see this changes nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:18 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
what you just said isnt dumb-assed. what you just said seems like a pretty solid opinion that makes sense. that isnt what i was was commenting on.

i was commenting on the remarks you hear when an AL pitcher goes to the NL, that you can safely give them 5 extra wins, or chalk them up the cy young, or claim they will win 3 or 4 or however many more games than they have ever won in a single-season previously. it almost never happens, and it likely isnt happening with santana either. maybe sabathia will come over and dominate. time will tell.

when AL pitchers start coming to the NL and dominating and blowing away their previous career stats and racking up huge win totals and winning all of the cy young awards, i will become a believer in that theory. until then, i think it is a dumb-assed theory.


Ted Lilly

Looking at the argument from another angle, a guy like Maddux would no longer be in the league if he had to pitch in the AL.


ted lilly hasnt won any more games than he did in the AL. typically speaking, naturally a pitchers stats should improve when going to the NL from the AL, there is no arguing that. but that does not necessarily equate into a whole bunch of extra wins. it is a different game in the NL. yes, pitchers bat, which improves the stats, but pitchers also get pulled earlier for pinch-hitting reasons, teams may go into the bullpen earlier, and starters may not get decisions in the NL that they may have been able to hang around for in the AL.

listen, im not arguing that the NL is stronger or even as strong as the AL right now. i am just saying that a lot of times projected results for pitchers coming from the AL to the NL are way over-estimated, and while the stats will improve, that doesnt automatically equate to x number of wins. there arent that many examples of AL pitchers moving to the NL and dominating any more than they did in the AL, but it is always predicted. maybe sabathia will dominate, he is a hell of a pitcher, and i wish the cubs had gotten him. i just dont think it is a done deal that he is going to just crush the NL.


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 Post subject: Re: Sabathia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:20 am 
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Nas wrote:
RFDC wrote:
While of course I would rather Sabathia not be on the Brewers, I am not all up in arms about this.

Can someone tell me the last big trade at the deadline that came in and really powered a team to a division and/or WS title?

Sure it is important, but I just don't see it being as big of a deal as some others.


The Randy Johnson trade?

Bobby Jenks?

Yes-Good example-Randy Johnson. For Cubs fans another good example would be Rick Sutcliffe. Another might be Carlos Beltran, who went from the Royals to the Astros in 2004. The fact is, this move will likely be a rent a player move, like Milwaukee made when they aquired Carlos Lee and he will sign elsewhere in the off season. But they will indeed get compensatory picks for losing him, which they will put to good use in re-stocking their fine minor league system. This was a smart move by the Brewers. With Corey Hart and Ryan Braun at the corner outfield spots and Price Fielder at first, they had no room for Matt LaPorta, who plays first base and the corner outfield positions. They used a good asset in a trade, that they really could not use any time soon anyway. If they lose Sabathia, they get more high picks that they can use on players they can develop at positions of greater need.

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