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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:57 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?


He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.



I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.


I hope not. I guess that might be a concern when he's truly leading off, but after that, he's just getting more at-bats than anyone else in random order.


Yes and no. The batter still has it in his mind that he has all these big bats behind him. So maybe he takes a different approach. As you say, you would hope that isn't the case, but that's the only real concern with batting a guy like him up top. These traditions are deeply ingrained.

If the goal is to score the most overall runs the batters should probably just be ordered from highest OPS to lowest.


Well, if it's due to the batters behind him, I wouldn't think it would change his approach much. Unless I'm misremembering, I don't think Schwarber ever spent a significant amount of time any lower in the order than second. He has always batted with Bryant, Rizzo, Zobrist, etc behind him. He batted second in the 2015 postseason, too, which is when he had his most success.

I guess we'll never really know, but I wouldn't move him unless his production starts to get bad... and then it's just more that I don't want a leadoff hitter who's hitting poorly.


We don't have a large enough sample to know either way. I'm pretty sure he may be leading baseball in the amount of pitches seen. Not a bad thing for a leadoff man. His OBP is plenty respectable too. But personally, if I've got Babe Ruth, I'm hoping for him to get beyond first base on his own a lot and ideally with guys on base.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:02 pm 
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How has no one tried to murder you before?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:03 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?

:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.

Way back in the 80s and before all the baseball genuis stuff when my friends and I were big into Stat O Matic we didn't really know crap about advanced metrics but we sure as shit knew by looking at Brian Downings player card that he sure as shit got on base a lot. Throw Gary Redus in that mix too and why Rance fucking Mulliniks was traded straight up for Cal Ripken.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


Yikes. In two years the JORR approved comp for Schwarber went from Matt Stairs to Brian Downing.

Wow, that's a huge jump in value. JORR I like how your opinion on Schwarber is trending.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:22 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?

:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:25 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


Yikes. In two years the JORR approved comp for Schwarber went from Matt Stairs to Brian Downing.

Wow, that's a huge jump in value. JORR I like how your opinion on Schwarber is trending.


I just looked. Those two have nearly the exact same numbers. They are silly close. Stairs had about the same number of homers in a lot less AB's. Downing had a much higher WAR though.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:36 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


Yikes. In two years the JORR approved comp for Schwarber went from Matt Stairs to Brian Downing.

Wow, that's a huge jump in value. JORR I like how your opinion on Schwarber is trending.


I just looked. Those two have nearly the exact same numbers. They are silly close. Stairs had about the same number of homers in a lot less AB's. Downing had a much higher WAR though.


If you were drafting one of those guys and would get his entire career for your team who would you take? It's not close.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:38 pm 
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JORR has a game he plays, and frankly, I admire it a bit (but just a bit).

He takes players whose numbers are shockingly good relative to their lack of notoriety. He then compares those players to young Cubs as comps. When questioned, he acts surprised and says "What? Nick Swisher was a solid hitter for a long time." While the reality of his statement is true, he knows damn well that he's using them as a comp because they were never given enough credit during their career (players who played during the steroid era but probably didn't use steroids are perfect for this). Also, when a Cub fan calls him out, it gives him the ability to say, "What?! You don't want a guy with 250+ career homers!? I guess all Cub prospects are going to be Hall of Famers!"

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:59 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?


He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.



I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.


So do you think his placement is revolutionizing the thought on placement?

I don't think you can make an argument that the leadoff spot has maximized his run producing potential.


I don't think batting order has any real effect on production, and if it does, it's negligible. Generally speaking, I just want my best hitters to get more PA's and to have a varied approach among the order (lefty, righty, patient, free swinger, first pitch swinger, patient hitter, etc.)


You certainly want more AB for your best hitters (which isn't Schwarber). However, you want as many important AB (ones with runners on base) for those hitters as possible. You have eliminated that possibility at least once per game by batting him first.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:02 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?


He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.



I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.


I hope not. I guess that might be a concern when he's truly leading off, but after that, he's just getting more at-bats than anyone else in random order.


Yes and no. The batter still has it in his mind that he has all these big bats behind him. So maybe he takes a different approach. As you say, you would hope that isn't the case, but that's the only real concern with batting a guy like him up top. These traditions are deeply ingrained.

If the goal is to score the most overall runs the batters should probably just be ordered from highest OPS to lowest.


Well, if it's due to the batters behind him, I wouldn't think it would change his approach much. Unless I'm misremembering, I don't think Schwarber ever spent a significant amount of time any lower in the order than second. He has always batted with Bryant, Rizzo, Zobrist, etc behind him. He batted second in the 2015 postseason, too, which is when he had his most success.

I guess we'll never really know, but I wouldn't move him unless his production starts to get bad... and then it's just more that I don't want a leadoff hitter who's hitting poorly.


You think he's hitting well?

He's getting on base well, which makes him a good leadoff hitter.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


It's like the end of an M. Night Shamalan picture for these Cub fans.

You have to allow them a few angry posts while the shock of reality sets in. They don't really mean the mean words they use during that time.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:06 pm 
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He's not hitting "poorly" and it's a small sample at this point. I certainly wouldn't move him for a prototypical leadoff hitter at this point. John Jay is the prototype, but give me Schwarber at number one and I'm fine. The way the Cubs have structured their team, even the positions that typically generate leadoff hitters have guys with decent OBP's and higher OPS. Russell isn't a contact guy, nor is Baez or Almora. And I'm still not convinced on Heyward until he keeps up this production for a couple months.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:07 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


It's like the end of an M. Night Shamalan picture for these Cub fans.

You have to allow them a few angry posts while the shock of reality sets in. They don't really mean the mean words they use during that time.


We just won the World Series. Do you really think we're upset that our leadoff hitter who gets on base all the time isn't hitting for a high average through 20 games?

Edit: Also, Shyamalan has a "y".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:09 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
You certainly want more AB for your best hitters (which isn't Schwarber). However, you want as many important AB (ones with runners on base) for those hitters as possible..


So... you think Schwarber batting first is good?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:41 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
He's not hitting "poorly" and it's a small sample at this point. I certainly wouldn't move him for a prototypical leadoff hitter at this point. John Jay is the prototype, but give me Schwarber at number one and I'm fine. The way the Cubs have structured their team, even the positions that typically generate leadoff hitters have guys with decent OBP's and higher OPS. Russell isn't a contact guy, nor is Baez or Almora. And I'm still not convinced on Heyward until he keeps up this production for a couple months.

Correct. And a 20 game sample size is a small window. Schwarber has been on enough and the leadoff spot is not a major issue now. Jay is not a guy I want leading off. Or playing everyday. Leave it alone for now.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Wouldn't mind switching him and Zobrist - if Zobrist was hitting better.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:57 pm 
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In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."

Yeah I'm not sure it isn't time to start worrying about his .220-.230 average he's been at most of the year.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Schwarber feels very idiosyncratic to me. He reminds me of Chris Shelton, the guy who hit like 20 home runs in a month for the Tigers and then got designated for assignment.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."


Babe Ruth.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Fucking Indians dont completely shit the bed in that series and we escape this Cubs era without the doomsday scenario. I hope Cleveland burns down.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Schwarber feels very idiosyncratic to me. He reminds me of Chris Shelton, the guy who hit like 20 home runs in a month for the Tigers and then got designated for assignment.

He'll be better than AAAA Shelton I suspect.... would Cub fans accept Chris Davis' career?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:52 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."

Yeah I'm not sure it isn't time to start worrying about his .220-.230 average he's been at most of the year.


This year? That is around his career. You were blinded by a plastic box

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:59 pm 
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America wrote:
Fucking Indians dont completely shit the bed in that series and we escape this Cubs era without the doomsday scenario. I hope Cleveland burns down.

As I have told you before pour gas on yourself and light a match. Make sure you are in Cleveland and we have two needs accomplished in one swift strike of a flame. Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:59 pm 
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I'll take the .400 plus average in the World Series and the championship it brought. 2016

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:03 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
I'll take the .400 plus average in the World Series and the championship it brought. 2016


Some of the comments are such poor trolling, it's like responding to a first grader. Better just to ignore him when he screams and let him self-soothe when he realizes no one gives a shit.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:04 am 
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Should have traded him.

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