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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:16 pm 
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I think you have to applaud the Cubs organization for realizing that last year was a failure and looking to correct it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
look, I think Bosio is a pretty good pitching coach.

So is Larry Rothschild.

But there are two things to understand. First, if you're going to trumpet Jake as a guy that Bosio reclaimed, you have to also point out that the guy regressed in form (literally and figuratively) this year. He had clear mechanical issues, release point issues that Bosio never really fixed for good.

Secondly, his bullpen was so bad that Joe only used two-three relievers last year and this year with any confidence. And the two guys he relied on the most, Chapman and Davis, there wasn't anything Bosio made better or fixed. They were already good.

I could easily see Bosio and Madden getting into it about Joe only using a few relievers and having such a quick hook on starters. I guess I'm just surprised Bosio didn't resign.


Arrieta was one of the best pitchers in baseball the 2nd half of the season. He was worked like a mule for 3 years too. He made the necessary adjustments. Quintana was arguably the Cubs best pitcher in the last 2 months after being God awful with the Sox for most of the season.

Bosio was easily the Cubs best coach and was fired to protect Maddon and take the focus away from his horrible in game decisions. The pressure of the playoffs is clearly too much for him.

Your Maddon hate (kinda understandable) is clouding your judgment here.

If your pitching coach cant mold a good bullpen over a period of 6-7 years, you need to get someone else, no matter how good he is with starters. Bullpens are too important.



If you are being honest with yourself, there is no arguing with the highlighted part of the post.

And the Cubs pen was pretty good for most of the time over the last two years. Maddon is in charge of who pitches and when, not Bosio.

I dont think anyone here is qualified to say who is the best coach.

I dont think the firing protects Maddon. In fact, the firing has increased the Maddon hate and it is now manifesting itself as Bosio love.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Yeah, firing somebody successful that was there before you and bringing in your own guy squarely puts the focus on Maddon. That does the opposite of protect him.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:26 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Yeah, firing somebody successful that was there before you and bringing in your own guy squarely puts the focus on Maddon. That does the opposite of protect him.


From the blame this season. You already have guys saying that Bosio lost it and not talking about how awful Maddon is in the playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Nas wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Yeah, firing somebody successful that was there before you and bringing in your own guy squarely puts the focus on Maddon. That does the opposite of protect him.


From the blame this season. You already have guys saying that Bosio lost it and not talking about how awful Maddon is in the playoffs.

Maddon has made bad moves in the post season, no doubt.

But they got as far (mabye even one round further) as the talent could take them this year, imo


If you're not blaming Bosio for CJ Edwards then I dont think you can blame Maddon for the Bryzzo disappearing act.


Anyway, it'll all be fine. Cubs will be good again next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Opposing teams now have a great scouting report on how to attack Bryant and Rizzo and saved it for when it mattered. That is worrisome.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:42 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Opposing teams now have a great scouting report on how to attack Bryant and Rizzo and saved it for when it mattered. That is worrisome.

Adjustments must be made.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Nas wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Yeah, firing somebody successful that was there before you and bringing in your own guy squarely puts the focus on Maddon. That does the opposite of protect him.


From the blame this season. You already have guys saying that Bosio lost it and not talking about how awful Maddon is in the playoffs.


Not really, people were already talking about how awful Maddon was in the playoffs when they won the World Series. Plenty of people, not just "on twitter," have been talking about Joe's playoff issues this year. Heck they're using the Bosio firing to further torch Joe.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:03 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Opposing teams now have a great scouting report on how to attack Bryant and Rizzo and saved it for when it mattered. That is worrisome.

can you say specifically what that scouting report was?

:lol: saved it for when it mattered :lol: what are you talking about.

good grief.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:08 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
IMU wrote:
Opposing teams now have a great scouting report on how to attack Bryant and Rizzo and saved it for when it mattered. That is worrisome.

can you say specifically what that scouting report was?

:lol: saved it for when it mattered :lol: what are you talking about.

good grief.

Do you not understand that teams and players don't throw the entire playbook at opposing teams they may see in the postseason?

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:06 am 
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Bosio did a really good job. He helped Arrieta get back to a delivery that worked better for him and simplified it, to make it easier to consistently throw strikes and he won a Cy Young award. He helped Kyle Hendricks to win the ERA title last season and become a top of the rotation pitcher. He helped guys like Feldman and Hammel to be effective enough to win with the Cubs and then be traded for prospects. But he wasn't a Joe Maddon hire and maybe he did not agree with the way Joe used his staff in the playoffs and made the mistake of disagreeing with Joe out loud? Anyway, he is gone. Maybe Hickey will be good and the pitchers will throw strikes more often. But the pitching was a big reason they won last year and the starting pitching was the reason they got to the NLCS 3 straight years. Bosio was not the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Did we ever get details on the Lester/Bosio argument last summer (when Lester, if I recall, got shelled for something like 10 runs in an inning and was "injured")?

I wonder if the startersdidnt have a beef with him?

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Did we ever get details on the Lester/Bosio argument last summer (when Lester, if I recall, got shelled for something like 10 runs in an inning and was "injured")?

I wonder if the startersdidnt have a beef with him?


I thought that Lester contract was only 4 years instead of six. These last three years are going to suck. If I were the Cubs I wouldn't be making any concessions with him in mind. He has already displayed how he acts when he becomes entitled in a dugout.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:38 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Did we ever get details on the Lester/Bosio argument last summer (when Lester, if I recall, got shelled for something like 10 runs in an inning and was "injured")?

I wonder if the startersdidnt have a beef with him?


I thought that Lester contract was only 4 years instead of six. These last three years are going to suck. If I were the Cubs I wouldn't be making any concessions with him in mind. He has already displayed how he acts when he becomes entitled in a dugout.

The Lester contract has been great. Stay out of Cubs business.

Regular Season: 43-25 (for JORR's sake), 3.33 ERA, 32 GS each season, 1.147 WHIP, 3.67 K/BB, 8.9 K/9

Postseason: 3-3 (for JORR's sake), 2.53 ERA, 9 GS total, 0.968 WHIP, 3.19 K/BB, 7.2 K/9

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:43 pm 
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IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Did we ever get details on the Lester/Bosio argument last summer (when Lester, if I recall, got shelled for something like 10 runs in an inning and was "injured")?

I wonder if the startersdidnt have a beef with him?


I thought that Lester contract was only 4 years instead of six. These last three years are going to suck. If I were the Cubs I wouldn't be making any concessions with him in mind. He has already displayed how he acts when he becomes entitled in a dugout.

The Lester contract has been great. Stay out of Cubs business.

Regular Season: 43-25 (for JORR's sake), 3.33 ERA, 32 GS each season, 1.147 WHIP, 3.67 K/BB, 8.9 K/9

Postseason: 3-3 (for JORR's sake), 2.53 ERA, 9 GS total, 0.968 WHIP, 3.19 K/BB, 7.2 K/9


Which is why I wrote "these last three years".

Not all contracts will suck from the moment the ink dries like Jason Heyward's.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:43 pm 
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IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Did we ever get details on the Lester/Bosio argument last summer (when Lester, if I recall, got shelled for something like 10 runs in an inning and was "injured")?

I wonder if the startersdidnt have a beef with him?


I thought that Lester contract was only 4 years instead of six. These last three years are going to suck. If I were the Cubs I wouldn't be making any concessions with him in mind. He has already displayed how he acts when he becomes entitled in a dugout.

The Lester contract has been great. Stay out of Cubs business.

Regular Season: 43-25 (for JORR's sake), 3.33 ERA, 32 GS each season, 1.147 WHIP, 3.67 K/BB, 8.9 K/9

Postseason: 3-3 (for JORR's sake), 2.53 ERA, 9 GS total, 0.968 WHIP, 3.19 K/BB, 7.2 K/9

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Unfounded assumption.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:49 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:58 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

Bill James = Gospel.


Gonna be saving that one for later.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:59 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Did we ever get details on the Lester/Bosio argument last summer (when Lester, if I recall, got shelled for something like 10 runs in an inning and was "injured")?

I wonder if the startersdidnt have a beef with him?


I thought that Lester contract was only 4 years instead of six. These last three years are going to suck. If I were the Cubs I wouldn't be making any concessions with him in mind. He has already displayed how he acts when he becomes entitled in a dugout.

The Lester contract has been great. Stay out of Cubs business.

Regular Season: 43-25 (for JORR's sake), 3.33 ERA, 32 GS each season, 1.147 WHIP, 3.67 K/BB, 8.9 K/9

Postseason: 3-3 (for JORR's sake), 2.53 ERA, 9 GS total, 0.968 WHIP, 3.19 K/BB, 7.2 K/9


Which is why I wrote "these last three years".

Not all contracts will suck from the moment the ink dries like Jason Heyward's.

Guess you didnt hear about the under reported speech he made in Game 7.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:07 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

Justin Verlander. The guy people say the Cubs should have traded for, who is a year older and also has years left on his deal at big money.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:24 pm 
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IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

Justin Verlander. The guy people say the Cubs should have traded for, who is a year older and also has years left on his deal at big money.


How did his year compare to Jon's without the h?

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:26 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

Bill James = Gospel.


Gonna be saving that one for later.


He was a secondary source used only to supplement the statistical primary source. If I had just said "age, see Bill James", you might have ammunition. However when you see increasing offensive numbers against, lowest innings pitched in a decade and mid season claims of fatigue James was hardly necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:34 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

Justin Verlander. The guy people say the Cubs should have traded for, who is a year older and also has years left on his deal at big money.


How did his year compare to Jon's without the h?

Fairly identical.

I'm just glad pitchers aren't looked at in one year sample sizes, otherwise Jake Arrieta might have gotten a $500M contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:47 pm 
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IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Unfounded assumption.


follow the trend and refer to bill james article on prime years

founded, now refute

Justin Verlander. The guy people say the Cubs should have traded for, who is a year older and also has years left on his deal at big money.


How did his year compare to Jon's without the h?

Fairly identical.

I'm just glad pitchers aren't looked at in one year sample sizes, otherwise Jake Arrieta might have gotten a $500M contract.


No, he will get something similar to Lester's instead

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Sounds like Bosio is going to land in Detroit.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:00 am 
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You figure one of these guys will be willing to talk shit about Joe during the winter if a reporter is willing to stir up shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:02 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
You figure one of these guys will be willing to talk shit about Joe during the winter if a reporter is willing to stir up shit.

Just give Bosio a dozen donuts and let him tell his tale.


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