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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Per my NL scout friend Bosio doesn't just have a good reputation around baseball, he has a great one. Letting him go is a really odd thing.

My opinion is Bosio is hard boiled a la Coop and that made Maddon nervous. He'd rather have a pitching coach that goes along with dress up days and such.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:33 pm 
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MartyD47 wrote:
He'd rather have a pitching coach that goes along with dress up days and such.


I'm guessing that's the case. More of a yes man needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Now that the Cubs fired Bosio will WSCR do the same?


Quote:
Nah, they'll just make him talk to Bernstein and Goff once a week about how Bucks-Pistons regular season games are the greatest thing in sports and anyone who doesn't agree is a racist and misogynist. A far worse fate.


I hope it's not, for the record; I prefer the idea that people are grumbling "all these fucks talk about is racism and out-of-town basketball" outside our little corner of the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:41 pm 
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312player wrote:
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Check if Joe’s knife in his back still has some renteria blood on it

Good guy, easy going, hippy joe



One of the world's greatest con men.


How so


He's as phony as a three dollar bill. All this hippy bullshit and the guy is a backstabbing son of a bitch. He'll be gone after next season himself. Pointing fingers and backstabbing eventually catches up with guys. Who do you think your next manager is?



we know he's a phony. but the reason he was brought in here was to change the culture. remember this team has guys in their early 20s. Impressionable still. So that phony stuff probably works well with kids that young. To you and me, we can see right thru it. but for guys like that, they're looking at the guy as something different than what they had before.

But that stunt only lasts so long. If Joe doens't win next year, and by win I mean the WS, I think he's gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Hard to quantify what a pitching or hitting coach is worth. Usually the good ones just have great players.


At the same time, did Dave Righetti and Bosio suddenly get bad?


Maybe the game passed them by?


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:57 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hard to quantify what a pitching or hitting coach is worth. Usually the good ones just have great players.


At the same time, did Dave Righetti and Bosio suddenly get bad?


Maybe the game passed them by?

Bochy holding Rags responsible for not getting Bumgarner a designated ATV driver

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:02 am 
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That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:07 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

And yet, they were able to win a World Series. Must be Theo's genius is too much for Idiot Maddon to overcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:09 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

And yet, they were able to win a World Series. Must be Theo's genius is too much for Idiot Maddon to overcome.


Or Bosio

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:14 am 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

And yet, they were able to win a World Series. Must be Theo's genius is too much for Idiot Maddon to overcome.


Or Bosio

Chapman had the worst stretch of his career on the Cubs before any over usage by Maddon.

Bosio does not have a good track record on relievers. He is definitely good with starters though.


We'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:10 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

And yet, they were able to win a World Series. Must be Theo's genius is too much for Idiot Maddon to overcome.


TB didn't win a world series and neither did the Cubs with two weasels. They only had Weasel Joe.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:15 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

And yet, they were able to win a World Series. Must be Theo's genius is too much for Idiot Maddon to overcome.


Or Bosio

Chapman had the worst stretch of his career on the Cubs before any over usage by Maddon.

Bosio does not have a good track record on relievers. He is definitely good with starters though.


We'll see.


Chapman struggled in his limited playoff appearances before joining the Cubs. I posted about it lastyear when the trade was made. That's not on Bosio. Carl Edwards and MANY others have been been good.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:34 am 
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I wonder if Contreras had anything to do with this. Perhaps Bosio didn't like how Willson handled the pitchers with all his mound visits, and Joe took Contreras' side.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:37 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
I wonder if Contreras had anything to do with this. Perhaps Bosio didn't like how Willson handled the pitchers with all his mound visits, and Joe took Contreras' side.


How big was the absence of Ross?

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:43 am 
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look, I think Bosio is a pretty good pitching coach.

So is Larry Rothschild.

But there are two things to understand. First, if you're going to trumpet Jake as a guy that Bosio reclaimed, you have to also point out that the guy regressed in form (literally and figuratively) this year. He had clear mechanical issues, release point issues that Bosio never really fixed for good.

Secondly, his bullpen was so bad that Joe only used two-three relievers last year and this year with any confidence. And the two guys he relied on the most, Chapman and Davis, there wasn't anything Bosio made better or fixed. They were already good.

I could easily see Bosio and Madden getting into it about Joe only using a few relievers and having such a quick hook on starters. I guess I'm just surprised Bosio didn't resign.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:53 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
look, I think Bosio is a pretty good pitching coach.

So is Larry Rothschild.

But there are two things to understand. First, if you're going to trumpet Jake as a guy that Bosio reclaimed, you have to also point out that the guy regressed in form (literally and figuratively) this year. He had clear mechanical issues, release point issues that Bosio never really fixed for good.

Secondly, his bullpen was so bad that Joe only used two-three relievers last year and this year with any confidence. And the two guys he relied on the most, Chapman and Davis, there wasn't anything Bosio made better or fixed. They were already good.

I could easily see Bosio and Madden getting into it about Joe only using a few relievers and having such a quick hook on starters. I guess I'm just surprised Bosio didn't resign.


Arrieta was one of the best pitchers in baseball the 2nd half of the season. He was worked like a mule for 3 years too. He made the necessary adjustments. Quintana was arguably the Cubs best pitcher in the last 2 months after being God awful with the Sox for most of the season.

Bosio was easily the Cubs best coach and was fired to protect Maddon and take the focus away from his horrible in game decisions. The pressure of the playoffs is clearly too much for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:25 am 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
That must be a real dugout of weasels with two guys now who have jockeyed for jobs that weren't vacant.

I can only hope that Joe is given the same indignity some day.

You can see why he is so sensitive to criticism. He knows this public image of humble genius isn't reality.

And yet, they were able to win a World Series. Must be Theo's genius is too much for Idiot Maddon to overcome.


Or Bosio

Chapman had the worst stretch of his career on the Cubs before any over usage by Maddon.

Bosio does not have a good track record on relievers. He is definitely good with starters though.


We'll see.


Chapman struggled in his limited playoff appearances before joining the Cubs. I posted about it lastyear when the trade was made. That's not on Bosio. Carl Edwards and MANY others have been been good.

No, MANY others have not been good.

They have not been good with the bullpen. If a guy who walks in a pitcher in a tight playoff game is your bell cow, you have a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:28 am 
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Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
look, I think Bosio is a pretty good pitching coach.

So is Larry Rothschild.

But there are two things to understand. First, if you're going to trumpet Jake as a guy that Bosio reclaimed, you have to also point out that the guy regressed in form (literally and figuratively) this year. He had clear mechanical issues, release point issues that Bosio never really fixed for good.

Secondly, his bullpen was so bad that Joe only used two-three relievers last year and this year with any confidence. And the two guys he relied on the most, Chapman and Davis, there wasn't anything Bosio made better or fixed. They were already good.

I could easily see Bosio and Madden getting into it about Joe only using a few relievers and having such a quick hook on starters. I guess I'm just surprised Bosio didn't resign.


Arrieta was one of the best pitchers in baseball the 2nd half of the season. He was worked like a mule for 3 years too. He made the necessary adjustments. Quintana was arguably the Cubs best pitcher in the last 2 months after being God awful with the Sox for most of the season.

Bosio was easily the Cubs best coach and was fired to protect Maddon and take the focus away from his horrible in game decisions. The pressure of the playoffs is clearly too much for him.

Your Maddon hate (kinda understandable) is clouding your judgment here.

If your pitching coach cant mold a good bullpen over a period of 6-7 years, you need to get someone else, no matter how good he is with starters. Bullpens are too important.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:30 am 
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Especially for Maddon, considering he seems to want his bullpen to pitch more innings than his starters.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:31 am 
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The bullpen was a strength earlier this year and last. He has to work with the tools he's given and really can't be held responsible for mismanagement.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:38 am 
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IMU wrote:
Especially for Maddon, considering he seems to want his bullpen to pitch more innings than his starters.

Dave Roberts, Chico Francona and Joe Girardi, too.


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:39 am 
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Nas wrote:
The bullpen was a strength earlier this year and last. He has to work with the tools he's given and really can't be held responsible for mismanagement.

The bullpen has not been a strength for the Cubs in years.


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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:41 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bullpen was a strength earlier this year and last. He has to work with the tools he's given and really can't be held responsible for mismanagement.

The bullpen has not been a strength for the Cubs in years.


Maddon used the bullpen early and often this season and the bullpen was fine last season before the trades.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:45 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bullpen was a strength earlier this year and last. He has to work with the tools he's given and really can't be held responsible for mismanagement.

The bullpen has not been a strength for the Cubs in years.

Cubs had one of the best bullpens in the second half of 2016 and the first half of 2017 per ERA, FIP and WAR.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:51 am 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bullpen was a strength earlier this year and last. He has to work with the tools he's given and really can't be held responsible for mismanagement.

The bullpen has not been a strength for the Cubs in years.


Maddon used the bullpen early and often this season and the bullpen was fine last season before the trades.

Yeah the bullpen was very good From the beginning to the middle of the year. The problem was they were used so much because the starters were so awful in the first half they were overworked and tired by the end of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:04 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
look, I think Bosio is a pretty good pitching coach.

So is Larry Rothschild.

But there are two things to understand. First, if you're going to trumpet Jake as a guy that Bosio reclaimed, you have to also point out that the guy regressed in form (literally and figuratively) this year. He had clear mechanical issues, release point issues that Bosio never really fixed for good.

Secondly, his bullpen was so bad that Joe only used two-three relievers last year and this year with any confidence. And the two guys he relied on the most, Chapman and Davis, there wasn't anything Bosio made better or fixed. They were already good.

I could easily see Bosio and Madden getting into it about Joe only using a few relievers and having such a quick hook on starters. I guess I'm just surprised Bosio didn't resign.


Arrieta was one of the best pitchers in baseball the 2nd half of the season. He was worked like a mule for 3 years too. He made the necessary adjustments. Quintana was arguably the Cubs best pitcher in the last 2 months after being God awful with the Sox for most of the season.

Bosio was easily the Cubs best coach and was fired to protect Maddon and take the focus away from his horrible in game decisions. The pressure of the playoffs is clearly too much for him.

Your Maddon hate (kinda understandable) is clouding your judgment here.

If your pitching coach cant mold a good bullpen over a period of 6-7 years, you need to get someone else, no matter how good he is with starters. Bullpens are too important.



If you are being honest with yourself, there is no arguing with the highlighted part of the post.

And the Cubs pen was pretty good for most of the time over the last two years. Maddon is in charge of who pitches and when, not Bosio.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
look, I think Bosio is a pretty good pitching coach.

So is Larry Rothschild.

But there are two things to understand. First, if you're going to trumpet Jake as a guy that Bosio reclaimed, you have to also point out that the guy regressed in form (literally and figuratively) this year. He had clear mechanical issues, release point issues that Bosio never really fixed for good.

Secondly, his bullpen was so bad that Joe only used two-three relievers last year and this year with any confidence. And the two guys he relied on the most, Chapman and Davis, there wasn't anything Bosio made better or fixed. They were already good.

I could easily see Bosio and Madden getting into it about Joe only using a few relievers and having such a quick hook on starters. I guess I'm just surprised Bosio didn't resign.


Arrieta was one of the best pitchers in baseball the 2nd half of the season. He was worked like a mule for 3 years too. He made the necessary adjustments. Quintana was arguably the Cubs best pitcher in the last 2 months after being God awful with the Sox for most of the season.

Bosio was easily the Cubs best coach and was fired to protect Maddon and take the focus away from his horrible in game decisions. The pressure of the playoffs is clearly too much for him.

Your Maddon hate (kinda understandable) is clouding your judgment here.

If your pitching coach cant mold a good bullpen over a period of 6-7 years, you need to get someone else, no matter how good he is with starters. Bullpens are too important.



If you are being honest with yourself, there is no arguing with the highlighted part of the post.

And the Cubs pen was pretty good for most of the time over the last two years. Maddon is in charge of who pitches and when, not Bosio.


this is bordering on insane. Protect Maddon? The cubs have been in the NLCS the last three years!! Why in the world would he need protection? The Friedman built Dodgers and the Rizzo built Nats were both better than the Cubs this year. What, is Theo in danger two? Insanity.

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 Post subject: Re: Bosio Fired
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:16 pm 
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IMU wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bullpen was a strength earlier this year and last. He has to work with the tools he's given and really can't be held responsible for mismanagement.

The bullpen has not been a strength for the Cubs in years.

Cubs had one of the best bullpens in the second half of 2016 and the first half of 2017 per ERA, FIP and WAR.

I prefer my bullpens to be good for entire seasons.


This isnt all on Bosio, though. Now we're just discussing the bullpen in general. That's on Theo, Joe, and Bosio.


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