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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:35 am 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
'77Cubs wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Shocking.


Haven't read anything in depth yet on this guy but he is supposed to be good plus free agent starter Alex Cobb likes him. Cobb looks decent as a 3rd/4th starter type.


If Archer is still being considered, it brings him into a situation where he is with his former manager and pitching ciach


While I don't think he hates Maddon, it didn't sound like Archer was all that enamored of him either when Joe opted out.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:36 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FrankDrebin wrote:
'77Cubs wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Shocking.


Haven't read anything in depth yet on this guy but he is supposed to be good plus free agent starter Alex Cobb likes him. Cobb looks decent as a 3rd/4th starter type.


If Archer is still being considered, it brings him into a situation where he is with his former manager and pitching ciach


Get rid of the guy who coached the pitchers who played for the Pennant three straight years and replace a couple of the starters from those teams with guys who haven't made the playoffs and hire the guy who coached them. Sounds like a great plan.


Coaches do not matter.


managers don't matter; coaches do

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:42 am 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.


I've been asking this question but nobody has an answer.

You basically had the same bullpen from 2016 except at the closer position. How did this bullpen which was pretty solid in 2016 go to shit so fast in 2017?


Because that is what bullpens do, almost across the board.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:54 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
If Bosio is good with starters and not so great with relievers then it's a good move. As Hawk Harrelson has been saying for a while, it's a game of bullpens boys.


The #1 reason for Cub relevance over the past three years was the emergence of Arrietta, who was a bust who the Orioles were happy to rid themselves of.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:58 am 
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Remember when the Cubs were going to sign David Price because they hired his college pitching coach.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:01 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
If Bosio is good with starters and not so great with relievers then it's a good move. As Hawk Harrelson has been saying for a while, it's a game of bullpens boys.


The #1 reason for Cub relevance over the past three years was the emergence of Arrietta, who was a bust who the Orioles were happy to rid themselves of.

Yes, he is good with starters. Starting pitchers are becoming less important though. I know that's sacrilege but that is the trend.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:02 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.


I've been asking this question but nobody has an answer.

You basically had the same bullpen from 2016 except at the closer position. How did this bullpen which was pretty solid in 2016 go to shit so fast in 2017?


Because that is what bullpens do, almost across the board.


Agreed, that's what bullpens do, but its not like they had a trusted bullpen in the playoffs last year. The trusted bullpen was CJ and Chapman. And with Chapman they abused him like his ex. Strop and Rondon had decent numbers but seemed to be inflated from low leverage situations. They weren't getting the ball often with confidence in the playoffs.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:04 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FrankDrebin wrote:
'77Cubs wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Shocking.


Haven't read anything in depth yet on this guy but he is supposed to be good plus free agent starter Alex Cobb likes him. Cobb looks decent as a 3rd/4th starter type.


If Archer is still being considered, it brings him into a situation where he is with his former manager and pitching ciach


Get rid of the guy who coached the pitchers who played for the Pennant three straight years and replace a couple of the starters from those teams with guys who haven't made the playoffs and hire the guy who coached them. Sounds like a great plan.



Couldn't agree more.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:08 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.

So he was a good pitching coach for years but either forgot how to do his job well or didn't care to suddenly? That seem like a reach, friend.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:09 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.


I've been asking this question but nobody has an answer.

You basically had the same bullpen from 2016 except at the closer position. How did this bullpen which was pretty solid in 2016 go to shit so fast in 2017?


Because that is what bullpens do, almost across the board.

Not true anymore.

See Yankees, Royals, Dodgers.

Bullpens are making multi year runs like rotations now.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:14 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.


I've been asking this question but nobody has an answer.

You basically had the same bullpen from 2016 except at the closer position. How did this bullpen which was pretty solid in 2016 go to shit so fast in 2017?


Because that is what bullpens do, almost across the board.

Not true anymore.

See Yankees, Royals, Dodgers.

Bullpens are making multi year runs like rotations now.


Dodgers had bullpen problems in the playoffs last year. The Yankees were so good that they needed White Sox castoffs. The Royals run was short and sweet.

Stop trying to force your narrative.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:37 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.


I've been asking this question but nobody has an answer.

You basically had the same bullpen from 2016 except at the closer position. How did this bullpen which was pretty solid in 2016 go to shit so fast in 2017?


Because that is what bullpens do, almost across the board.

Not true anymore.

See Yankees, Royals, Dodgers.

Bullpens are making multi year runs like rotations now.


Dodgers had bullpen problems in the playoffs last year. The Yankees were so good that they needed White Sox castoffs. The Royals run was short and sweet.

Stop trying to force your narrative.

You're nuts. The Yankee bullpen has been dominant since 2014 (top 3 in MLB for 4 years running). They traded some of it last year to get prospects than immediately rebuilt it.

The Royals were top 5 2012-2015. Another 4 year run.

Dodgers started their run last year and continued it this year and will continue next year. Indians too.

Stop bringing in your old tyme thoughts and acting like nothing ever changes in baseball.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:48 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love the shots at Maddon and the Cubs for not bringing Bosio back.

Many act like there is no justification at all.

As has been discussed around here. The walks are clearly a huge problem. CJs struggles are a problem. Wilson being horrible is a problem. Rondon being shit is a problem. Who is held responsible for these things? I am sure some will say Maddon. But I think it has been pretty well documented that Maddon let Bosio handle the pitchers on his own.

On top of those issues has been the stupid comments he has made throughout the year. It has been rightly stated that he seemed to be mailing it in this year.

Bosio had a great run here. He did a great job with Arrieta and Hendricks and I am sure with others. But at times change is needed.


I've been asking this question but nobody has an answer.

You basically had the same bullpen from 2016 except at the closer position. How did this bullpen which was pretty solid in 2016 go to shit so fast in 2017?


Because that is what bullpens do, almost across the board.

Not true anymore.

See Yankees, Royals, Dodgers.

Bullpens are making multi year runs like rotations now.


Dodgers had bullpen problems in the playoffs last year. The Yankees were so good that they needed White Sox castoffs. The Royals run was short and sweet.

Stop trying to force your narrative.

You're nuts. The Yankee bullpen has been dominant since 2014 (top 3 in MLB for 4 years running). They traded some of it last year to get prospects than immediately rebuilt it.

The Royals were top 5 2012-2015. Another 4 year run.

Dodgers started their run last year and continued it this year and will continue next year. Indians too.

Stop bringing in your old tyme thoughts and acting like nothing ever changes in baseball.


and how many other examples are out there that prove me correct with yours appearing as the outliers?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:54 am 
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good dolphin wrote:

managers don't matter; coaches do


Coaches who have no control over whether the bullpen is shit or good in a given year matter?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:57 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

managers don't matter; coaches do


Coaches who have no control over whether the bullpen is shit or good in a given year matter?


They're teaching the players and tweaking things here and there.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:09 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

managers don't matter; coaches do


Coaches who have no control over whether the bullpen is shit or good in a given year matter?


I don't really mean it. I was rolling with the long running joke.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:41 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

Dodgers had bullpen problems in the playoffs last year. The Yankees were so good that they needed White Sox castoffs. The Royals run was short and sweet.

Stop trying to force your narrative.

You're nuts. The Yankee bullpen has been dominant since 2014 (top 3 in MLB for 4 years running). They traded some of it last year to get prospects than immediately rebuilt it.

The Royals were top 5 2012-2015. Another 4 year run.

Dodgers started their run last year and continued it this year and will continue next year. Indians too.

Stop bringing in your old tyme thoughts and acting like nothing ever changes in baseball.


and how many other examples are out there that prove me correct with yours appearing as the outliers?

If you dont see the changing paradigm in baseball regarding bullpens, then you are blind.

What you are saying was true years ago, not so much currently. And your statement on the Royals and Yankees were just flat out wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:50 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

Dodgers had bullpen problems in the playoffs last year. The Yankees were so good that they needed White Sox castoffs. The Royals run was short and sweet.

Stop trying to force your narrative.

You're nuts. The Yankee bullpen has been dominant since 2014 (top 3 in MLB for 4 years running). They traded some of it last year to get prospects than immediately rebuilt it.

The Royals were top 5 2012-2015. Another 4 year run.

Dodgers started their run last year and continued it this year and will continue next year. Indians too.

Stop bringing in your old tyme thoughts and acting like nothing ever changes in baseball.


and how many other examples are out there that prove me correct with yours appearing as the outliers?

If you dont see the changing paradigm in baseball regarding bullpens, then you are blind.

What you are saying was true years ago, not so much currently. And your statement on the Royals and Yankees were just flat out wrong.


If not so much currently then I assume you are prepared to show me the 51% of consistently good bullpens employing the same pitchers for 2 or more years in a row.

I see quality starting pitching spread thin across over expanded baseball resulting in fewer average innings pitched for starters. I don't see the bullpens as the affirmative choice.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:51 pm 
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also "changing paradigm" is corporate douchespeak

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:52 pm 
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I wish you were able to see this issue from the 30,000 foot perspective.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:01 pm 
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One non-sensical post followed by two mediocre jokes. I accept your surrender.


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