It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:34 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 138 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 79878
denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

Where does Theo rank on the all time list of successful GMs?


Let's see, he took the two of the three franchises with long running droughts and brought championships to them. He was hired at 28. I'd say he is as close to a genius as you can get in sports.


and that, right there RPB, is what draws the mock

Einstein was never run out of Boston in a gorilla costume

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 39599
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
I thought Jed was the GM?

_________________
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.

-Ronald Reagan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
pittmike wrote:
I thought Jed was the GM?

I misspoke. Pardon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:08 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101540
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
rogers park bryan wrote:
Where does Theo rank on the all time list of successful GMs?
Right near the top. Slightly behind Kenny Williams.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:28 pm
Posts: 381
pizza_Place: Palermos on 63rd
denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

Where does Theo rank on the all time list of successful GMs?


Let's see, he took the two of the three franchises with long running droughts and brought championships to them. He was hired at 28. I'd say he is as close to a genius as you can get in sports.


I'd wait for history's view of the steroid era before thinking he's a genius. Maybe they had more to do with his success in Boston (at least) than his proprietary data.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
MartyD47 wrote:
denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

Where does Theo rank on the all time list of successful GMs?


Let's see, he took the two of the three franchises with long running droughts and brought championships to them. He was hired at 28. I'd say he is as close to a genius as you can get in sports.


I'd wait for history's view of the steroid era before thinking he's a genius. Maybe they had more to do with his success in Boston (at least) than his proprietary data.

But he was competing against steroid guys too, so I dont think you have to wait for anything to judge him.

Genius is a loaded word. He's one of the best front office guys in recent history for sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
rogers park bryan wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

Where does Theo rank on the all time list of successful GMs?


Let's see, he took the two of the three franchises with long running droughts and brought championships to them. He was hired at 28. I'd say he is as close to a genius as you can get in sports.


I'd wait for history's view of the steroid era before thinking he's a genius. Maybe they had more to do with his success in Boston (at least) than his proprietary data.

But he was competing against steroid guys too, so I dont think you have to wait for anything to judge him.

Genius is a loaded word. He's one of the best front office guys in recent history for sure.


This is indisputable, and anyone who argues otherwise is blindly biased.

The steroids argument is one of the dumbest I've heard. Who cares? Everyone else was using them too. Was he supposed to only use "clean" guys?

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:37 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101540
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Over the last decade or so its Belichick #1, Theo #2, then everyone else.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Over the last decade or so its Belichick #1, Theo #2, then everyone else.

I wasn't expanding to other sports. If so, whoever put the Warriors together probably has an argument.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:40 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101540
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Not to make light of an NBA season, but its tougher to win a Championship in the NFL & MLB. Case and point, you can't even say his name off the top of you head so "whoever" would be-- at best-- #3 behind Coach Hoodie and Theo.

All time? Theo is near the top, but not at the top. Bill Walsh, the 90's Braves GMs...the Yankees GMs from the mid 40s thru the mid 60s, The Steelers of the 70s, Jerry Krause. The true historic dynasties rank above Theo IMO.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Not to make light of an NBA season, but its tougher to win a Championship in the NFL & MLB. Case and point, you can't even say his name off the top of you head so "whoever" would be-- at best-- #3 behind Coach Hoodie and Theo.

I dont follow the NBA at all though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Not to make light of an NBA season, but its tougher to win a Championship in the NFL & MLB. Case and point, you can't even say his name off the top of you head so "whoever" would be-- at best-- #3 behind Coach Hoodie and Theo.


Normally I would sort of agree on the basis that NBA players tend to “GM” their own teams now, but I think GS is the one exception. They had to draft Curry and Thompson and Green and fill in a lot of competent veterans.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:28 pm
Posts: 381
pizza_Place: Palermos on 63rd
leashyourkids wrote:
The steroids argument is one of the dumbest I've heard. Who cares? Everyone else was using them too. Was he supposed to only use "clean" guys?


You're missing the point. His proprietary data is what propelled the Red Sox or that was what the narrative would lead us to believe. If no one cares or it wouldn't leave a black mark on his legacy Theo should come out and say that the Red Sox used steroids to their advantage better than any team in baseball during that era. Like all GM's Theo is part snake oil salesman.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
MartyD47 wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
The steroids argument is one of the dumbest I've heard. Who cares? Everyone else was using them too. Was he supposed to only use "clean" guys?


You're missing the point. His proprietary data is what propelled the Red Sox or that was what the narrative would lead us to believe. If no one cares or it wouldn't leave a black mark on his legacy Theo should come out and say that the Red Sox used steroids to their advantage better than any team in baseball during that era. Like all GM's Theo is part snake oil salesman.

You're smarter than this, Marty. Just anti Cub stuff. I get it.

Theo was the best before he left Boston. The Cubs Title just cemented it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88693
Location: To the left of my post
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.

Maybe you put down the Yankees. I certainly don't.


You can remove the Cubs and Red Sox being who they are from the equation. 14 years, 3 World Series titles kinda says it all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.


No one puts down the Yankees.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 79878
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.


Theo is also aided by false narratives in both of his stops that his predecessor left the cupboard bare.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.


Theo is also aided by false narratives in both of his stops that his predecessor left the cupboard bare.

I have never heard anyone say the Red Sox were bare. They won like 95 games the year before he took over. I think you hallucinated that one.


The 2011 Cubs cupboard...I mean, not too much young talent, but a few tradeable pieces for sure.


Like Andrew Cashner. Are you still holding on that trade as a Win for the Padres?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Not to make light of an NBA season, but its tougher to win a Championship in the NFL & MLB. Case and point, you can't even say his name off the top of you head so "whoever" would be-- at best-- #3 behind Coach Hoodie and Theo.


Normally I would sort of agree on the basis that NBA players tend to “GM” their own teams now, but I think GS is the one exception. They had to draft Curry and Thompson and Green and fill in a lot of competent veterans.

And fired their coach after a 50 win season to bring in Kerr.

His name is Bob Myers, btw. He's the 2nd best GM in the NBA behind RC Buford.

I think whoever has been the GM of the Giants(if its been the same dude for awhile) has an argument over Theo.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Not to make light of an NBA season, but its tougher to win a Championship in the NFL & MLB. Case and point, you can't even say his name off the top of you head so "whoever" would be-- at best-- #3 behind Coach Hoodie and Theo.


Normally I would sort of agree on the basis that NBA players tend to “GM” their own teams now, but I think GS is the one exception. They had to draft Curry and Thompson and Green and fill in a lot of competent veterans.

And fired their coach after a 50 win season to bring in Kerr.

His name is Bob Myers, btw. He's the 2nd best GM in the NBA behind RC Buford.

I think whoever has been the GM of the Giants(if its been the same dude for awhile) has an argument over Theo.

Yep. 312 mentioned him. Brian Sabean.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88693
Location: To the left of my post
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.


No one puts down the Yankees.

Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.


No one puts down the Yankees.

Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

Yeah, that was a very common narrative 15 years ago. They pretty much never win nowadays so of course you don't hear it lately.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo. He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

I also think history won't be kind to the "tanking era" of professional sports.


No one puts down the Yankees.

Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

It was always wrong.

They stopped winning when they started spending like crazy in the 2000s

2009 title was bought. (But that just means they signed the right guys)

The 4 in the late 90s were built around guys who were drafted. Jeter, Williams, Petite, Posada and Rivera


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

It was always wrong.

They stopped winning when they started spending like crazy in the 2000s

2009 title was bought. (But that just means they signed the right guys)

The 4 in the late 90s were built around guys who were drafted. Jeter, Williams, Petite, Posada and Rivera

I think Rick's original point is still correct. It's easier to win in large markets. Theo's not winning a World Series in San Diego.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

It was always wrong.

They stopped winning when they started spending like crazy in the 2000s

2009 title was bought. (But that just means they signed the right guys)

The 4 in the late 90s were built around guys who were drafted. Jeter, Williams, Petite, Posada and Rivera

I think Rick's original point is still correct. It's easier to win in large markets. Theo's not winning a World Series in San Diego.

I dont think that was Rick's point. His point was winning with the Red Sox and Cubs isnt any harder. A lot of people, (I've done it) probably give him more credit for ending droughts.

But as my friend dolphin pointed out, the Red Sox were no slouches when Theo took over.

And even the Cubs had been in the playoffs 3 times in the previous 8 years, so Rick is correct on that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
rogers park bryan wrote:

I dont think that was Rick's point. His point was winning with the Red Sox and Cubs isnt any harder. A lot of people, (I've done it) probably give him more credit for ending droughts.

Maybe I misinterpreted this.
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

I dont think that was Rick's point. His point was winning with the Red Sox and Cubs isnt any harder. A lot of people, (I've done it) probably give him more credit for ending droughts.

Maybe I misinterpreted this.
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He won with two huge market teams. We put down the accomplishments of those who win with the Yankees because they have advantages and yet with Theo because the teams were historically gross underperformers(under different ownership) we act like it was some miracle to win in two of the biggest markets in the country all the while we credit Billy Beane, and Joe Maddon, for the work they did in small markets without accomplishing much.

Well yea, when you remove the topic sentence it changes the argument.


It began with

I think the "end the long streak of losing" is overrated for Theo.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88693
Location: To the left of my post
How about we say I made two great points instead of one and everyone is right!

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seriously? I've heard a lot that the Yankees buy their championships.

It was always wrong.

They stopped winning when they started spending like crazy in the 2000s

2009 title was bought. (But that just means they signed the right guys)

The 4 in the late 90s were built around guys who were drafted. Jeter, Williams, Petite, Posada and Rivera

I think Rick's original point is still correct. It's easier to win in large markets. Theo's not winning a World Series in San Diego.


You have no idea if that's true, and you could say it about every GM who has won in a big market.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 138 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group