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 Post subject: AJ Burnett
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:20 am 
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Ok, the guy says he wants to be a Cub. I say the Cubs make that happen. According to Ottawa Citizen:
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Burnett, who is 6-6 with a 4.90 earned-run average, signed a five-year, $55-million U.S. deal with Toronto before the 2006 season. His contract allows him to opt out and become a free agent after this season.

If Burnett left on his own, the Jays would likely get two draft picks in compensation. But in a bid for a better return, they will likely test the trade market before the July 31 non-waiver deadline and contending teams might well covet Burnett as a rental pitcher in a pennant race.

Well, by all logical reasoning, he should be on the market, with the BJs in last place. I like the idea of Burnett. He has less cachet than Sabathia, so I think he'd come at a lesser price, and he went out on a limb to actually state that he not only wants to play for a contender, but specifically for the Cubs. From what I can tell, his contract appears to be front-loaded; if that's indeed the case, it seems to me the Cubs could have him for the final 3 years of his contract at quite a reasonable price, assuming he doesn't opt out (which you'd think he wouldn't, seeing as how he wants to be a Cub).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:24 am 
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BJs should never be in last place.


Never.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:27 am 
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I like the idea of trading for a SP, but has Burnett really ever been that good to justify a trade and paying that much $$? Looking at his career stats they really aren't that impressive, are they?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:29 am 
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i wonder who they would want for him? the cubs have plenty of "potential" in the minors, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless it comes down to a specific player.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:34 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I like the idea of trading for a SP, but has Burnett really ever been that good to justify a trade and paying that much $$? Looking at his career stats they really aren't that impressive, are they?


You could easily say the same about Soriano. During a playoff run, you can never have enough starting pitching.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:38 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I like the idea of trading for a SP, but has Burnett really ever been that good to justify a trade and paying that much $$? Looking at his career stats they really aren't that impressive, are they?

Well, that's true to a degree. But like I said, I think the contract is front-loaded; you're looking at ~$10M for the last 3 years if he stays, or what's left on $13.2M for just this year. His stats aren't spectacular this year, but he'll take the ball every 5th day and give you a real shot to win, and he's that pitcher that can help anchor the rotation in the playoffs. Plus, a lot of people are talking Sabathia, whose number are likewise down this season. I think you get Burnett significantly cheaper than you do Sabathia, and likely get similar results (though Sabathia is actually a little cheaper for this season).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:41 am 
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Quote:
A.J. Burnett rhp
5 years/$55M (2006-10)

* signed as a free agent 12/05
* $6M signing bonus
* 06:$1M, 07:$12M, 08:$12M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M
* Burnett may opt out of the contract after 2008
* limited no-trade clause allowing Burnett to block deals to 15 clubs
* deal includes 8 round-trip limousine trips per season between Toronto & Burnett's Maryland home for his wife
* 1 year/$3.65M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
o $0.15M in performance bonuses:
+ $50,000 each for 190, 200 & 210 IP
* 1 year/$2.5M (2004), avoided arbitration 12/03
* 1 year/$2.5M (2003), lost arbitration 2/03 ($3.075M-$2.5M)
* 1 year/$0.3675M (2002)
* agent: Darek Braunecker & Mark Rodgers
* ML service: 8.038


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:58 am 
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I'd be happy with Sabathia or Burnett. The Cubs will need another starter before this is all over.

Reports from the farm are not good on Mr. Hill.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:59 am 
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I'd even be happy if the Cubs landed the former. Would just make the AL Central that much easier for the Sox to win.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:48 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I like the idea of trading for a SP, but has Burnett really ever been that good to justify a trade and paying that much $$? Looking at his career stats they really aren't that impressive, are they?


You could easily say the same about Soriano. During a playoff run, you can never have enough starting pitching.


You would be ignorant to say the same about Soriano, who is a 6 time All-star, winner of the silver slugger award in the American league in both 2004 and 2005 as well as in the National league, where he not only won the silver slugger, but became onlty the 4th player ever to join the 40/40 club. He had 46 homers and 41 steals that 2006 season. He has had over 30 homers in 5 different seasons and already has 15 this year despite 2 trips to the DL. He may not be a gold glove fielder, but the guy is a very accomplished hitter. He was already, well before the Cubs got him. Thats why they paid 136 million to get him.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:49 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I like the idea of trading for a SP, but has Burnett really ever been that good to justify a trade and paying that much $$? Looking at his career stats they really aren't that impressive, are they?


You could easily say the same about Soriano. During a playoff run, you can never have enough starting pitching.


You would be ignorant to say the same about Soriano, who is a 6 time All-star, winner of the silver slugger award in the American league in both 2004 and 2005 as well as in the National league, where he not only won the silver slugger, but became onlty the 4th player ever to join the 40/40 club. He had 46 homers and 41 steals that 2006 season. He has had over 30 homers in 5 different seasons and already has 15 this year despite 2 trips to the DL. He may not be a gold glove fielder, but the guy is a very accomplished hitter. He was already, well before the Cubs got him. Thats why they paid 136 million to get him.

Your use of wikipedia and google is awe inspiring.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
I'd be happy with Sabathia or Burnett. The Cubs will need another starter before this is all over.

Reports from the farm are not good on Mr. Hill.


And now with the flooding in Des Moines - they are sending Hart and Marshall all over to get innings.

On the staff, Burnett would be a very good addition as a 3/4.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:55 pm 
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If he's available, the Cubs have to pull the trigger. They'll need the extra arm come July and August. However, I wonder what the asking price is.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:15 am 
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Peter Gammons reported that Toronto was looking for middle infielders in return. Whether they would be interested in Cedeno, Fontenot, or Eric Patterson or someone in the farm system, who knows.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:15 am 
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MattInTheCrown wrote:
but he'll take the ball every 5th day and give you a real shot to win,


This is what worries me the most about Burnett. He's always been supremely talented, but has struggled to stay healthy. Who knows what the asking price is, but I hope the Cubs don't have to gut the farm system (which is bad enough as it is) to get a guy with such a checkered injury history.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:19 am 
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Sabathia seems like the better choice and according to the baseball guru Steve Stone the cubs will acquire him.

So let's hope thats the case cause Burnett seems like a less talented Kerry Wood.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:17 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I like the idea of trading for a SP, but has Burnett really ever been that good to justify a trade and paying that much $$? Looking at his career stats they really aren't that impressive, are they?


You could easily say the same about Soriano. During a playoff run, you can never have enough starting pitching.


You would be ignorant to say the same about Soriano, who is a 6 time All-star, winner of the silver slugger award in the American league in both 2004 and 2005 as well as in the National league, where he not only won the silver slugger, but became onlty the 4th player ever to join the 40/40 club. He had 46 homers and 41 steals that 2006 season. He has had over 30 homers in 5 different seasons and already has 15 this year despite 2 trips to the DL. He may not be a gold glove fielder, but the guy is a very accomplished hitter. He was already, well before the Cubs got him. Thats why they paid 136 million to get him.


I know Rick commented on it, but really, did noone else here find this incredibly fucking stupid? Steve, you really are the only one, including Hendry and Happy Harry, that thinks Soriano is worth the money he has been paid. Fact is, he is one of the worst lead-off hitters in the NL, is injury prone, and simply isnt worth the production-per-value that so many others are in MLB. Yeah, he was once a member of the 40/40 club, so was Barry Bonds, why arent you pining for him? He's injured and a shell of the player he was 3 years ago, as evidenced by his declining production. Plenty of reasons to love the Cubs right now, but blind, unconditional, stupid, rationalizing love is unncesssary at this point, agreed?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:40 am 
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I dont know about this one. High risk, high reward. Burnett may pitch unbelievable for you, but then again, his arm seems to fall off right when it matters. If this guy was healthy back in '03 the Cubs would have likely been a lot worse off in the series.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:23 am 
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if there is even a chance of getting sabathia, that would seem to be the guy to target. i have no idea if it can really be pulled off, but that would be a move that would make the cubs a complete team, and give them a serious chance to go deep this year.

i wouldnt be disappointed with burnett, but he is no cc sabathia. either guy improves the starting rotation convincingly.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:45 am 
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FF-anyone who follows this section much, knows that I have railed against Soriano as much as anyone, for his poor fielding and his refusal to go to the minors for a rehab assignment, before coming off the DL, that he should not be a leadoff hitter.

But that does not change the fact that he's a good hitter. He has the kind of bat that can carry a team for a week, when he's hot. Plus, just prior to this latest injury, he was stealing bases again and playing better defense. If you don't believe this post-go back to the thread I started "Soriano, the most fundamentally unsound"superstar". In addition, he has had bad luck with injuries in the past year, but prior to that, he had never been on the DL. So I'm not sure he's injury prone really.Read through my comments again and they only deal with his offensive production and are spot on. The other things, as mentioned I have criticized plenty here already. Get your facts straight.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:09 am 
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Soriano has power, but no speed anymore. He can't field, he has a low OB%, a middle of the road average, and he's been on the DL 3 or 4 times since he's come to the Cubs.

That is anything but wise spending.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:23 am 
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My post only dealt with his hitting. He still hits well and with power. But he also stole 7 bases already this year and had just started running real well, the last 3-4 games of the season, after dealing with a quad injury and calf injury. It may well be a blessing that he had some extra time to get his legs back under him, and come back running like he did just 2 years ago, when he stole 41. In any case, he will likely get a similar SB total to last years 19, at least. Thats not great or even what I envisioned when he was signed, but its still a decent total. His fielding has been awful at times, but it had shown improvement over the last couple weeks prior to the injury. As long as he makes the routine plays and can still use that cannon he has, to throw out runners who might try taking an extra base, he is fine. It's his offense he was signed for. As far as his contract is concerned. I agree, it was probably a bad sign. He got more than I would have signed him for. But it's not my money. Its nice to have your team willing to over-pay for a player they want, vs one that lets guys like Torri Hunter sign elsewhere, because they won't pay what others will.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:29 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Soriano has power, but no speed anymore. He can't field, he has a low OB%, a middle of the road average, and he's been on the DL 3 or 4 times since he's come to the Cubs.

That is anything but wise spending.


Exactly. I dont know what Steve was talking about with the "get your facts straight" comment. No Cubs fan I know is saying that was money well spent. Sure the Cubs are better with him then without him, but really if thats the best compliment you can give someone who's making almost $20M a year, thats bad spending. It's obvious by now that was a bad value signing. In a sport without a cap, it's not that big of a deal, but I dont know why he's acting like Soriano is a great player based on what he did 3-4 years ago. And who the hell gives a shit about a Silver Slugger award anyways?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:45 am 
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FF-Why would any fan care if a player that makes his team better than the other players available, is signed to a contract that makes him a bit overpaid? There is no salary cap. If the Cubs overpay a few guys, but by doing so, it puts them in a position to compete for championships-I'm for it.
The Sox might have been in a better position if they had signed Aaron Rowand or Torri Hunter, but when the bidding got too high, they lost out. Now you have a team that lacks a good center fielder. Either of those guys would have made the Sox a much better team, but money prevented it. I prefer a team that is willing to overpay once in a while to one that is unwilling to pay market prices for players and suffers the consequences.
Oh, and his 40/40 year was in 2006-2 years ago. With 46 homers and 41 steals. 2 years ago, not 3-4.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:22 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Soriano has power, but no speed anymore. He can't field, he has a low OB%, a middle of the road average, and he's been on the DL 3 or 4 times since he's come to the Cubs.

That is anything but wise spending.


Exactly. I dont know what Steve was talking about with the "get your facts straight" comment. No Cubs fan I know is saying that was money well spent. Sure the Cubs are better with him then without him, but really if thats the best compliment you can give someone who's making almost $20M a year, thats bad spending. It's obvious by now that was a bad value signing. In a sport without a cap, it's not that big of a deal, but I dont know why he's acting like Soriano is a great player based on what he did 3-4 years ago. And who the hell gives a shit about a Silver Slugger award anyways?


his value is that he goes on ridiculous stretches where he goes crazy and carries a team, as he did down the stretch last september, and as he did last month. that is what they are paying him for, and in that regard, he has delivered. yeah, he is overpaid, but so are lots of other guys, and as a fan, i dont care what they make, i just care about who they have on the team that can help win games. they didnt bring him in here to win gold gloves. after his slow start, he has been real good at the plate, has even been running pretty well, and was looking at a pretty good offensive season this year, benefiting greatly from a productive lower end of the batting order. the lineup is definitely hurt by him not being in it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:25 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:27 am 
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Frank, come on now, we all know that you and every other Sox fan around here would love to be overpaying to have Soriano in your line up, especially the way your offense has sucked recently.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:28 am 
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Not for $138 million. I'm glad they didn't sign Tori Hunter for as much as he got/wanted. Same with Rowand.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:35 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Not for $138 million. I'm glad they didn't sign Tori Hunter for as much as he got/wanted. Same with Rowand.


+1. Sox arent the Yankees. They cant just throw around $100 million contracts with no repercussions if they dont work out. They need to spend wisely. If they spent all that money on an aging Hunter, that could have possibly prevented them from signing some of their young talent or acquiring other players in the future.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:38 am 
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Of course, they are much better off with a guy like Swisher, who is a vastly inferior defender in CF playing for them . Who needs a guy like Rowand who's batting .311, when you can have Swisher batting .219? After all, Swisher is cheaper. Glad they didn't get Johan Santana too?

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