I understand that the tendency is for people to overestimate how much better players will get as they age.

But I do think Russell is one who will improve a bit offensively because he is so young and he hits more for power than contact. He will gain more power as he gets older, but he won't ever be a guy who hits for a great average. Regardless of age, he's not going to suddenly become a .290 hitter.

With the way the Cubs are structured now, though, I'll gladly take a gold glove caliber shortstop who can hit 25 HR a year but will go through dry spells offensively.

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I'm comfortable in saying that by 25 years old Russell will be an ~.800 OPS hitter.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Trolls be trollin'

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Let's say Addy doesn't get better. I'll take this year's team results every near for the next decade. #greattogether

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Of course you would. I would as well. This last discussion was specifically about one player though. My beef is that the Cub fans seem to have this amazing crystal ball such that they can always see their players getting better and better.

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So, when discussing a specific player, you get annoyed by your own generalization?

WTF?!

Obviously, Russell could get hit by a truck, break a leg, become addicted to drugs, not improve at the plate, regress in the field...Anything can happen. But, up to now, he has shown himself to be an elite level fielding shortstop at the age of 21...he showed signs of power with little plate discipline as a 21 year old major leaguer. At the age of 22, as a second year player, he hit 21 HRs and had 95 RBI...that's the best 22 and under line for a Cub since 1913. 11th pick in his draft, it's not like he came out of nowhere. 5th best dWAR in MLB. The kid's a stud on an upward trajectory. We're not talking about some overhyped prospect.

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Notice I did not assume or say he will not get better or that he would somehow end up trash. I am saying as great as he has been that might be it. Some seem to think that talent and ability is some sort of linear function that always goes up with age and experience. That is nto always true. Best of luck though.

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Cubs fans have reasons to be optimistic about guys like Addy. Rizzo had been a bum until he got here. Arrieta same thing. Baez and Bryant took large strides with their approach at the plate in 2016. Hendricks got a lot better in 2016.

It is probably a combination of things as the cause, but clearly the Cubs organization is helping players meet their potential at the major league level. But the biggest challenge will be seeing if Heyward is able to fix his swing in the off season and come back improved in 2017.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

We're not talking about "usually". We're talking about a top tier shortstop prospect who has turned into an elite fielder with 20+HR power and 90+ RBI at 22 years old, whose SO's dropped significantly from Rookie to Sophomore and BB's increased...

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He struck out 135 times. You're doing just what pittmike said you're doing. Every Cub is just going to get better. I would never tell you that Tim Anderson is suddenly going to master control of the strikezone.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

That's all I was saying and not saying Russell sucks either. And Dennis it's not a commentary on this current incarnation or their ability it's the fans that think this way. I've been hearing this since Corey Patterson and probably before that.

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Gotcha. Three ways it can go- he gets worse, stays the same, or gets better. No shocker that Cubs fans would think he will improve from a .240 average. The current management team has shown the ability to improve individual player performance. His age means he is no where near his peak. It's really not a leap.

But I get it. MANY fans project progression for every player, and reality says regression will also occur.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I think he'll get slightly better as he heads toward his peak in his mid to late twenties. I think leash has it about right above, except i wouldn't be shocked if he had a season where he hit .290. Everyone has a career year. But if you think he's suddenly going to walk 100 times and strike out less than 100, I think that's wishful thinking.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Jorr...who has better career..Addy or Anderson?

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And he struck out 149 last year with 50 fewer plate appearances. He struck out 10% fewer times while getting 10% more at bats from his first year to his second. That's significant.

I think he will continue to improve at the plate for a few more seasons. He may even contend for an MVP once or twice. We'll just have to wait and see...that's all you can do.

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I think you'd obviously have to say Russell, but neither one has much of a career.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Come on.

I think it is likely both teams have a solid SS for the next decade.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

What? I'm almost certain Tim Anderson won't be playing SS for the Sox in 2025.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Why not?

I thought he looked pretty good for his rookie season. Why would they not want to keep him around. There are way bigger areas of concern that must be addressed

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Gordon Beckham looked pretty good his rookie season too.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Sox rookies suck. Got it.

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I thought he was asking who has had a better career thus far. That's what the tense suggests.

If he's asking who will have a better career when they're done, I have no idea. Russell is certainly the better shortstop. I would guess Anderson might be the more dynamic offensive player because of his speed.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Nah, I meant who has the better career as far as a prediction. I think both are going to be very good and barring a major injury, both will be the SS for their club for the next 10-12 seasons.

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What is the difference between building the franchise for 3-5 years while not making the playoffs vs averaging 81-81 and not making the playoffs?
Nothing. Except the 81-81 team will tend to be 81-81...or worse.

Look at this shit since 2007, especially the last four years!!!
The Sox have been relatively terrible with Tim Anderson being the only light beyond Sale and Quintana.

It's not good. It doesn't appear to be getting better.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/his ... esults.jsp

I like the Theo model. It seems to be working...almost twice. I just wish the Sox would suck on purpose.

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@audioidkid

Here's my beef with Theo's model, what happens if Houston takes Bryant?

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But you could also wonder "what if the Cub had won one or two more games the year before?" Then Bryant is a Rockie.

you take the next highest guy on the board and keep pushing forward. the whole model did not depend on bryant

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

The fact that you couldn't interpret 312's question is on you, my friend.

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What the fuck are you talking about? What if Portland took Jordan? What if the bases were 120 feet apart?

I've never seen a fan base who twists themselves in pretzels to discredit the fucking team they root for. Every team has some luck, dude.

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120' apart, eh? so the pitchers mound is 90' away and 15" above home plate? I like this...
Cyberball! No more 68 year old umpires who can't see!

2005 was some serious luck...and ridiculous pitching. The Sox were 35-19 in one run games and 22-8 during the first half of the season.

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@audioidkid