if i was the cubs i'd have signing jason heyward to a big ol fatty contract as my #1 priority. here's why...

- the guy is a FA who will have his age-26 season (aug 9, 1989) next year. that's young for a FA and i think it's reasonable to figure we haven't seen his peak/prime/best yet.

- believe it or not, despite averaging .281/12/59/22 over the last 2 years, he's still such a defensive !!! guy that he's also managed 6.2 and 6.5 WAR over the last 2 years.

- this cubs team is looking at schwarber/bryant/soler/??? in the OF next year. since none of those guys scream + DEFENDING OF!!!! having a cannon-armed guy who can play any OF position = something the cubs will need going forward. and i think right now since you need so much more than just 1 big name/front-line SP, esp for 150-200mil+, you might as well get an everyday player who can help your team defense and come into his own offensively and hopefully pump out some 20/20 seasons alongside the usual suspects.... cuz man, how about a lineup with schwarber/heyward/soler in the OF and then bryant at 3rd, russell at SS, baez/castro at 2B, rizzo at 1st, anyone-but-ross catching, and then guys like almora are coming up to fight their way in or get traded? man oh man, i know the playoffs proved the cubs need pitching but still, man, i'm salivating at the thought of getting heyward in there.

- getting him means the cardinals don't get him and thus you significantly weaken your #1 division rival going forward for the next 5-10+ years. and since they traded away shelby miller to get him that's a triple win (you get heyward, they lose heyward, they lose shelby miller) so yeah that's perfect for the cubs IMO!

so then with heyward in the OF you've got a situation where you can trade a soler or baez/castro or even almora if he comes good, and you can get some of that "cost controlled" pitching that ppl talk about. and even if you break the bank and splash the cash for heyward there's no reason you can't add zimmermann with him and then look to make trades for other guys..... or here's a novel idea: DRAFT GOOD PITCHERS! contrary to popular beliefs the cubs DO make draft picks after round 1, right? i wouldnt know cuz with all of the focus on the bigtime first round draft picks and seemingly nobody outside of the bullpen really showing up from the 2nd-60th rounds of the 2011-2014 drafts, you know, it IS possible to hit on draft picks outside of the 1st round. jacob degrom was a 9th round pick after all.... hell even syndergaard and matz were like the 37th or 72nd draft picks in their draft! FFS GUYS!

soooooooooooo yeah TLDR b4 i go through stupid crazy $$$ at david price (as goff would say: KEEP HIM!) or greinke (who had a nice reg season last year but was ol reliable in terms of giving up 2-3R per start in the playoffs when you needed him the most) i'd spend that stupid crazy $$$ on heyward then go get zimmermann and work some trade magic, prolly not for sonny gray, but that type of pitcher so that way i dont have to spend 150-400mil on ~2/+ big name overrated/overpriced pitchers who won't give you as much value for the $$$ as would jason heyward.

he's gonna be expensive, but those pedantic rickettses and others told us the cubs could spend big $$$ "when it's time" --- WELL HEY IT'S TIME, and go get jason heyward cuz especially with this cubs team looking to piecemeal a defensive OF filled with converts and soler.... man, go get a studly defensive OF who can be a 15/20 or even 20/20 who likely hasn't even peaked b4 FA and you can then give yourself a whole lot more options with a nice nice player who i think would totally flourish here and kick ass.

plus lemme put on my goff hat here: the team needs a brother! get it done!

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what's the point? they're ever going to beat the mets anyways.

Depends how much and how long.

No way I go 7/140M+ which "the experts" are predicting.

Even hearing 10 year deals which is insane.

Heyward might be a good fit for the Cubs, but I think he's going to command a lot of dough for a 12 homer rightfielder. If you think he can play an elite center going forward, that changes things a little bit, but 1) his arm is wasted in center to some degree and 2) he's a big dude and I would expect him to slow down as he approaches 30. But signing him would allow the Cubs to comfortably trade Schwarber or Soler or possibly both for young controlled pitchers.

The Cubs are in a really good position to make any kind of moves they want. We'll see how Epstein handles things.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

btw in terms of "cost controlled pitching" i read that the padres might look to move shields, who isnt a top top tier pitcher but shouldnt cost you too much (they need a SS so how about castro or baez?) and he's only owed $65mil on the rest of his deal, which goes through 2019 with that last year being a 16mil team option.

plus his 3.91 ERA last year might mean he's that much cheaper if you see him rebounding to like 3.40-3.50ish. and having him through 2019 @ 65mil? thats the right price.... but is he the right pitcher and would he cost too much? i'd send castro to the padres for him.... but they want baez. if you want baez give me kimbrel back too and we're talking



good point dude!

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Wow Sin.... That is like a maefesto explaining your point.....which is really good I have to say!

ding ding ding. we have a winwar!

as to the bolded part, that's where the gamble and the "stupid crazy $$$" comes in: betting on his offensive to improve. cuz let's be realistic here, if you're throwing $$$ at a FA odds are that you fucked up whatever part of the team you're adding the big $$$ FA in. in this case the cubs have pretty much fucked up / not addressed outfield defense, and i think part of what makes heyward so attractive is that he can play all 3 positions (and i'm with you JORR, he's a RF defensively but he doesnt hit like one.... yet) and the cubs are in need of that versatility....

and i'd rather spend that $150-250mil betting that j-hey can go from 12 to ~25HR within the next year or two then ride his peak years til 31-33 before he starts to decline back to the ~15HR phase and ends up being torii hunter 2: electric bugaloo.



congrats you really added to this thread dude. i dont know where the board would be without your wholly necessary contributions.

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I heard an interview with John Hart when he was the interim guy in Atlanta and he said the reason he moved Heyward was that he didn't really know how to price him if he was going to try to re-sign him.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

Not going to happen. Theo wont pay Heyward that pile of cash.

Heyward has Avisal numbers last year.

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Heyward 6.5 WAR .293 BA .359 OBP .439 SLG
Avisail -0.3 WAR .257 BA .309 OBP .365 SLG

their HR and RBI (13/60 Heyward) (13/59 Avi) were close but that's about it Heyward also lead in steals Heyward 23 SB 3 CS Avi 7SB and 7CS.

I'd say NOT even close.

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You evil bitch you are trying to quote shit I never said!

They will not trade Schwarber. Soler? Possibly. Heyward really does not make sense for Cubs at this point considering his price and the fact he really cannot play center. Going to be interesting to see what their plans are. Maybe Elmhurst Steve had a meeting with Theo today and he will reveal their plans moving forward.

Give me your list of what you would do in their spot.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

why does price matter for the cubs? they should have a shit-ton of money cuz when theo first arrived ricketts was able to slash payroll by like ~50mil+/year (or whatever, it was a lot) cuz by paying theo/pals 4-5mil/yr everyone had bought in to "the plan" and therefore they were OK with losing, so the cubs went from a top-3/5 payroll team to a much lower payroll team and i would fathom to guess that in the big picture ricketts saved ~100mil if not more money by being able to slash 25-50mil/yr for 3-4 years there.

let's pretend that money isn't any sort of a mitigating factor for the cubs and they had enough in the coffers to get ANY FAs that they want.... that's where i'm saying GO GET HEYWARD cuz while he might not be the archetypical CF i think he's better than what you've got there and he can also slide into RF/LF if you get a little speedy flea to patrol CF and have the range to run down all the fly balls and whatnot. isn't almora a + defender CF? well getting heyward can be a stop-gap til he shows up, then you'd be able to have a schwarber/heyward/soler outfield to break camp and start the year, and then with heyward you'll be able to trade an outfielder like soler (cuz i'm not trading sexual schwarber either) and you can slot heyward into RF and have a ++ defender with a cannon for an arm, and on this team if the guy doesn't develop into a 20+ HR bat in RF/CF it's not like it's going to kill the team cuz with schwarber bryant rizzo baez castro and then even soler you've got a lot of longball on this team, and then if heyward comes here he wont have pressure to be THE GUY on the team and he can slot into a lineup and do his thing.

and btw, i have to LOL when people start acting like the financial situations of billionaire owners suddenly are the most important thing, cuz you know yeah everyone totally wants heyward at 15mil/yr but 25mil/yr? CAN'T HAVE THAT! HE'D KILL THE PAYROLL!!! --- i lol cuz it's not like ticket prices aren't going up if they dont sign heyward/whoever.... its not like tom ricketts is gonna have to subsist on ramen noodles for a year or two if they go get heyward. it's just a bunch of imaginary crap that ppl throw out there to make excuses when in reality i dont care if you gotta pay heyward $50 a year or 50mil/yr.... just get him out there on the damn field cuz i think this guy still has another level or 2 to reach at b4 he totally peaks... and you gotta take some risks to get a 25 y/o FA...b but these opportunities don't happen that often cuz guys like trout/harper/goldschmidt/migcab/etc simply DON'T get to free agency... and if they do it's at age ~30+ and it's basically a FA derby for the right to overpay for his decline years after age ~34 or thereabouts. clearly heyward isnt offensively at that top top level, but the arrow is pointing up and i'd take my chances to get this rare bird in here where he can be the #4-5 most important offensive piece and watch his game develop when there's no pressure on him to be mike trout with a bunch of bums.

look at the WAR leaders this year >> harper, trout, greinke, donaldson, goldschmidt, arrieta, votto, kershaw, pollck, kiermaier, cain, keuchel, machado, scherzer // heyward // rizzo, posey kinsler babe-bryant, mookie << heyward was 15th and short of kiermaier (who was quietly like a 7.38 WAR player providing stellar defense with .263/10/40/18 --- sheeit, heyward's .281/12/59/22 aint nothing to sneer at, cuz he's up there with other "elite" all around players like AJ pollock and uhhh.... dare i say lorenzo cain?) and yeah ofc lorenzo cain, heyward's in some elite company, which isn't bad for a guy who everyone thinks is at least a 1/2 bust cuz he was supposed to be trout/harper b4 trout/harper showed up.... but hey he only ended up busting out into a 6.0-6.5 war player over the last 2yrs at age 24/25 =D

TLDR = please don't talk about money like it matters if player X makes 15mil/yr or 25mil/yr; THE CUBS HAVE THE MONEY. the cubs could afford to be the #3 payroll in baseball b4 they got all their new revenue streams, and last i checked paying 4-5mil/yr for theo/jed = the cubs were able to slash payroll by 25-50+mil/yr for 4-5years so they should have that giant pile of cash to spend on top FAs/players "when it's time" because IT'S FUCKING TIME!!!!!

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Pass on J Hey... He's going to command huge money n long term.. I'd take Gordon and save 2 years and 75 million.

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Of COURSE you would. The Cubs aren't being rumored to sign Avisail.

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I don't know. They could do a lot of things. First, I'd move Schwarber before I'd move Soler. Soler controls the strike zone better than anyone on the team and he can be a serviceable outfielder. Schwarber really has no position that he can play adequately. Second, Torres is useless to me if Russell is my shortstop for the next five or six seasons. He'd be tradebait. I'd be looking to find a cost-controlled ace if I could. Maybe you could shake Kluber or Carrasco loose. Then sign a second tier guy like Leake. I'd also test the market for Rizzo. You might be able to get a haul for him. Bryant could play first and with Baez moving to third infield defense would suddenly be a strength rather than a weakness. But they're in love with Rizzo and he may have intangible qualities as a clubhouse leader that you don't want to lose.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

lol

Soler cant stay on the field. He'll have a year or two where he stays healthy and have big numbers but he's the guy to trade. Sell high.

I PREDICT: If they trade Soler this board will be full of Cub fan tears about it within two seasons.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

and what part of their numbers beside HR/RBI, which BTW is what Pittmike said were comparable makes YOU think Avi and Heyward are equal...was it WAR,BA,OBP,SLG, SB, SB% ?

Heyward 6.5 WAR .293 BA .359 OBP .439 SLG
Avisail -0.3 WAR .257 BA .309 OBP .365 SLG

their HR and RBI (13/60 Heyward) (13/59 Avi) were close but that's about it Heyward also lead in steals Heyward 23 SB 3 CS Avi 7SB and 7CS.

You should STOP listening to Hawk and Stoney blab on about just how good Avi is and look at the numbers. They go on and on about his power potential.The dude NEVER hit 20 HRs in season NEVER.

-0.3 WAR that's a minus 0.3 and 2.0 is replacement level... the Sox should have taken José Iglesias the SS that went to the Tigers in the Peavy trade.

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Let the Mets overpay for him, to make up for losing Cespedes.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

He has Yankees written all over him.

Trading Soler and keeping Schwarber would be like trading David Justice and keeping Matt Stairs.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

Avisail will be FINE. He is a year early

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I think Schwarber will be (if not already) a better defender in the OF than Soler. Silent has a gun, but the guy cannot move at all.

Schwarber is the better hitter of the two.

Schwarber's trade stock may never ever be higher than it is right now. You might get some team desperate for power to offer up a King's ransom for him.

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I disagree with both of those thoughts. Neither one is a prize in the outfield. Both guys have strong arms. Soler is faster and more athletic. I'll be shocked if Soler isn't the better hitter.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.