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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:30 am 
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If Castro was playing the final 2 weeks of the season, and Zobrist plays everyday... they were likely to end up near the same in OPS. One was trending way up, the other way down.

Zobrist had one really great run this season lasting a few weeks...outside of that he was average or even below.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:18 am 
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IMU wrote:
If Castro was playing the final 2 weeks of the season, and Zobrist plays everyday... they were likely to end up near the same in OPS. One was trending way up, the other way down.

Zobrist had one really great run this season lasting a few weeks...outside of that he was average or even below.


There is still about a 50 point gap in OPS or are you assuming Castro was going to continue his tear. And if you exclude the current castro tear he was beyond horrible much of the year. I don't see the point of using selective stats.

Zobrist's defense and versatility have been pretty big for the Cubs this year. Castro still grades out as a negative value defensive player while Ben is a plus. Also Maddon being able to play both him and Bryant in LF and move Baez around has improved the team too.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:25 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
IMU wrote:
If Castro was playing the final 2 weeks of the season, and Zobrist plays everyday... they were likely to end up near the same in OPS. One was trending way up, the other way down.

Zobrist had one really great run this season lasting a few weeks...outside of that he was average or even below.


There is still about a 50 point gap in OPS or are you assuming Castro was going to continue his tear. And if you exclude the current castro tear he was beyond horrible much of the year. I don't see the point of using selective stats.

Zobrist's defense and versatility have been pretty big for the Cubs this year. Castro still grades out as a negative value defensive player while Ben is a plus. Also Maddon being able to play both him and Bryant in LF and move Baez around has improved the team too.

Castro's "tear" has lasted since the All-Star Game. He has been even more dominant in the last 2-3 weeks, but he is still a .825 OPS player since July 15th. Higher if you go since August 1st.

Zobrist's descent has lasted even longer. Since June 1st he has an OPS of exactly .700. Only 32 RBI since then while primarily hitting 4th or 5th. Not good. He has been especially atrocious in September.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:35 am 
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Babe Ruth. Yogi Berra. Tino Martinez. Starlin Castro. Maybe there was a time not too long ago when you might think, “One of these things is not like the others …”


No, I still think one of these things is not like the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:38 am 
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Yeah... Tino Martinez? Seriously?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:30 pm 
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you can't tell me you wouldn't take Castro over LaStella, lefthanded bat or no.

And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.

Look, I understand why the move was made. I just think it was a bad move certainly long term, and maybe even this year. Zobrist and a more patient approach may pay off in the playoffs, but we'll see. And hey, I like Zobrist. I just wish we had kept them both.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:43 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.


well, alrighty then...

I think even Theo admits it was a salary dump that he didn't get full value for.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.

This is a league that features Schwarber and Cespedes playing the outfield.

Castro would be just fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:57 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.

This is a league that features Schwarber and Cespedes playing the outfield.

Castro would be just fine.


and Joe had him under his spell since he sat him last year so he would be more than willing to try

I think people are also forgetting that Starlin started the year on a tear. The bad looks like more of an aberration sandwiched between the good.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:10 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.

This is a league that features Schwarber and Cespedes playing the outfield.

Castro would be just fine.


and Joe had him under his spell since he sat him last year so he would be more than willing to try

I think people are also forgetting that Starlin started the year on a tear. The bad looks like more of an aberration sandwiched between the good.

you don't trade true talent under a good contract for nothing. Somebody didn't like the kid, period.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:40 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.

This is a league that features Schwarber and Cespedes playing the outfield.

Castro would be just fine.


and Joe had him under his spell since he sat him last year so he would be more than willing to try

I think people are also forgetting that Starlin started the year on a tear. The bad looks like more of an aberration sandwiched between the good.

you don't trade true talent under a good contract for nothing. Somebody didn't like the kid, period.


I was against the trade and will ALWAYS be against it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:45 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
And you also can't tell me that Castro couldn't have played the outfield in a pinch.


Yes I can.

This is a league that features Schwarber and Cespedes playing the outfield.

Castro would be just fine.


and Joe had him under his spell since he sat him last year so he would be more than willing to try

I think people are also forgetting that Starlin started the year on a tear. The bad looks like more of an aberration sandwiched between the good.

you don't trade true talent under a good contract for nothing. Somebody didn't like the kid, period.


Is there any debating it wasn't a salary dump? Looking at his year, he had one of his best offensive years and it still wasn't very good. His power spiked and he essentially doubled his home run rate. His OBP is still around .300, and he isn't a plus defender at second or short.

His averages are still his averages. I don't care when he was hot or cold, he drew 24 walks at a 4% rate. Off 118 players with 500 AB's he is the 14th worst. Slugging was probably his best attribute and he is still within 20 points of Zobrist, Baez, Lawrie, and Lastella.

The question I would have with keeping Castro is what happens with benching him and moving him to a utility role. He would be the senior guy on the team moving to a bench role. I think that would have been a distraction.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:09 am 
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Just want to point out Baez is probably not around if this guy was still here.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Starlin would look amazing at 2B right now.

Fucking Theo. :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Please tell me this is sarcasm.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Please tell me this is sarcasm.

Sorry you don't want one of the best young middle infielders in the game on your team.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Jesus Christ, Starlin Castro has been worth 2fWAR COMBINED the past two seasons. Combined. It's three weeks into the season. I think he started hot last year too.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:53 pm 
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I'm sorry you don't recognize the adjustments Starlin has made this season.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:09 pm 
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I'm sorry you don't understand BABIP.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:24 am 
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Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:40 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

When you get on base at a 40% rate, it doesn't matter how.

The dude rakes.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:56 am 
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IMU wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

When you get on base at a 40% rate, it doesn't matter how.


True. But Castro gets on at a 32% rate.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:07 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

When you get on base at a 40% rate, it doesn't matter how.


True. But Castro gets on at a 32% rate.


Yeah, I'm not sure where IMU is getting 40%. If it is for the first 2 weeks of this season only, that is a joke. Just as the Cubs sit at 8-7, yet will win over 90 games this year and the Central and the Reds are 9-6, yet will probably finish with a losing record, Castro will be who Castro is.....a low OBP guy, who is prone to mental lapses in the field too often, but will have a pretty good batting average. Not a bad player by any means, but a guy they were able to upgrade from.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:11 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

The Zobrist signing was good ( by way of dealing Castro) was good because he helped them win a WS but the Chapman trade was bad because he helped them win a WS. Steve you honestly make me hate being a Cubs fan sometimes .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:22 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

The Zobrist signing was good ( by way of dealing Castro) was good because he helped them win a WS but the Chapman trade was bad because he helped them win a WS. Steve you honestly make me hate being a Cubs fan sometimes .


Zobrist wasn't a rental that cost the Cubs a superior prospect. The Cubs signed him as a free agent. Yes, it did in effect cost them Castro, in that they needed to deal him to open salary space, but Castro had already proven he was not going to be a building block on this team. Losing him was acceptable and Adam Warren came over in the deal as well, and it was expected that he would have value to the club, though that proved not to be the case. Bottom line....Losing Castro okay, losing Glyber Torres not okay. Plus, Zobrist was not a rental and may well help them repeat in 2017 and beyond.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:27 am 
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You're bad at spin.

This was a terrible trade.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:43 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Castro was traded to dump his salary, so the money and the position would be available for Zobrist. Zobrist was the World Series Co-MVP and while they may have given Zobrist a longer contract than ideal, he certainly paid off in year one of the deal. castro is one of those guys that loses focus and makes errors on routine plays far too often. Plus, as has been pointed out by others, was not a good OBP guy. Not many walks.

The Zobrist signing was good ( by way of dealing Castro) was good because he helped them win a WS but the Chapman trade was bad because he helped them win a WS. Steve you honestly make me hate being a Cubs fan sometimes .

It should not surprise anyone that baseball sage Steve like the move for Zobrist better.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:25 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Zobrist wasn't a rental that cost the Cubs a superior prospect. The Cubs signed him as a free agent. Yes, it did in effect cost them Castro, in that they needed to deal him to open salary space, but Castro had already proven he was not going to be a building block on this team. Losing him was acceptable and Adam Warren came over in the deal as well, and it was expected that he would have value to the club, though that proved not to be the case. Bottom line....Losing Castro okay, losing Glyber Torres not okay. Plus, Zobrist was not a rental and may well help them repeat in 2017 and beyond.


The Cubs didn't rent the 2016 WS Championship, they own it forever. They traded Glyber Torres for a permanent WS Title.

At this point I don't know who I'd rather see get hit by a bus, Elmhurst Steve or Glyber Torres...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:40 am 
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Torres is hurt in the minors.

I hope you're happy.

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