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badrogue17
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:20 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.

Sandy Koufax?

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Top 5 Steroid Home run Guys

Richard Hidalgo - 44
Rich Aurellia- 37
Javy Lopez-34
Paul Sorrento-31
Bret Boone-37

Honorable Mention to Klesko's 40 RBI month and Shawn Green's 10 Homerun week.


That Shawn Green thing was crazy as was the career resurgence of a Benito Santiago. And Brady Anderson is the poster boy for all this right? At least Canseco and McGwire didn't come out of nowhere with their power.

Brady Anderson was a roid era hipster. He did it before it was cool.


And yes, the career resurgences and guys going from MEH to 35 homeruns (Dean Palmer, John fucking Jaha) was great.


Oh and fucking Gagne

My first 3 picks in fantasy that year were A Rod/Green/Pujols. I think I ended up with 8000 Home runs.


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:21 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson

Both guys just changed their swing
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RFDC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:22 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson

Both guys just changed their swing

I hear bosio worked with both of them.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:23 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson

Both guys just changed their swing

I hear bosio worked with both of them.

:lol:
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Matches Malone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:25 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson

Both guys just changed their swing


And their necks.
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Walt Williams Neck
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:26 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.

I agree with FF :shock:

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Matches Malone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:28 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Brady Anderson was a roid era hipster. He did it before it was cool.


And yes, the career resurgences and guys going from MEH to 35 homeruns (Dean Palmer, John fucking Jaha) was great.


Oh and fucking Gagne

My first 3 picks in fantasy that year were A Rod/Green/Pujols. I think I ended up with 8000 Home runs.


Good description of Anderson and great recall on Jaha and Dean Palmer. Dean freakin Palmer was a threat at the plate back then.

And a gassed to the gills Gagne was the most un-hittable pitcher I've ever seen.
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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:30 pm 
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it would be a lot quicker to talk about the guys who weren't on steroids back then. Frank Thomas. end of discussion.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:32 pm 
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It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:32 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
He probably was taking something at some point over the last 1-3 years to help get himself into shape. He may or may not be on something right now.

Either way, an incredible run over the last ~25 starts.


Spot on. I think we can start to heal, Frank.

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Matches Malone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:36 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...


Dave Stewart?
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Joe Orr Road Rod
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.



Lots of guys. It's usually big stuff guys who finally master their command. Like Arrieta.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:39 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...


Dave Stewart?


I mean confirmed 'roid users.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.



Lots of guys. It's usually big stuff guys who finally master their command. Like Arrieta.

Al Leiter, Cliff Lee, John Danks (2017)
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Matches Malone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:40 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...


Dave Stewart?


I mean confirmed 'roid users.


Doesn't anyone who played for the A's in the late 80's count as a confirmed user?
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:41 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...


Dave Stewart?


I mean confirmed 'roid users.

I love Dave Stewart like a crazy uncle but anyone who played in Oakland or under LaRussa should be assumed dirty.
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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:47 pm 
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Yeah, I guess. But wasn't he considered supremely fuckin' talented at a young age?

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...


Dave Stewart?


I mean confirmed 'roid users.


Doesn't anyone who played for the A's in the late 80's count as a confirmed user?

Could we agree more?

I think we should get an apartment together


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badrogue17
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:50 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.



Lots of guys. It's usually big stuff guys who finally master their command. Like Arrieta.

Al Leiter, Cliff Lee, John Danks (2017)
I like the Cliff Lee
comp but I don't know it helps finesse guys gets better.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:51 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Yeah, I guess. But wasn't he considered supremely fuckin' talented at a young age?

Yes, but so were Canseco and McGwire. There is always room for improvement.
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:51 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.



Lots of guys. It's usually big stuff guys who finally master their command. Like Arrieta.

Al Leiter, Cliff Lee, John Danks (2017)
I like the Cliff Lee
comp but I don't know it helps finesse guys gets better.

What helps them?

I was referring to guys who just figured it out later in their careers
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IMU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:52 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.

Carpenter had a similar turnaround

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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:53 pm 
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I don't think there are many late blooming pitcher examples.

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badrogue17
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:55 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:

What helps them?

I was referring to guys who just figured it out later in their careers

Being on roids.

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Don Tiny
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. Fortunately, I don't care. The only thing that would be historically different is that - anecdotally - I remember most confirmed pitchers used it to extend their careers. I don't recall any specific pitchers who suddenly became good. Maybe forgetting, though...


Dave Stewart?


I mean confirmed 'roid users.


Doesn't anyone who played for the A's in the late 80's count as a confirmed user?

Could we agree more?

I think we should get an apartment together


Image

FIXED

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:59 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Yeah, I guess. But wasn't he considered supremely fuckin' talented at a young age?

Yes, but so were Canseco and McGwire. There is always room for improvement.


Agreed, but I guess my original point was that I don't remember a circumstance where PED's made a bad pitcher good. Arrieta was not considered to be some blossoming superstar who just needed to get over the hump. He was just bad.

Again, usage wouldn't surprise me at all. That would just be the only thing that makes me pause.

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Don Tiny
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So nice I posted it twice.

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Last edited by Don Tiny on Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Peoria Matt
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:02 pm 
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I didn't go through this whole thread but didn't he change his delivery?
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Elmhurst Steve
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:03 pm 
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IMU wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's insane how many Cub fans in this thread are acting like this is insane speculation.

Seriously, what are his historical comps? Who went from having 6+ and 7+ ERAs and in less than a year turning into one of the best pitchers in baseball and then having arguably the best 25 game stretch in the history of MLB shortly after that.

I don't give a shit one way or the other. I still consider Bonfs the greatest baseball player ever. But let's not pretend this is crazy speculation.

Carpenter had a similar turnaround


Carpenter was one who had UCL (Tommy John) surgery. Many who have that surgery, have come back better (throwing harder) than they had before the surgery. But it serves to discredit a Cardinal, so I'll let it go. :wink:

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