America wrote:
Charlotte is scoring like 15 runs a game.
So are many minor leauge teams
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| Yoan Moncada Watch http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=105913 |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
I must say that, when talking baseball, JORR and Frank are strange bedfellows (for me). |
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| Author: | Brick [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Save this discussion for the day after the trade deadline. At least one trade with a decent return will happen. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
leashyourkids wrote: FavreFan wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: FavreFan wrote: It seems like you, JORR, and Frank want to give the benefit of the doubt to the front office on this "rebuild". I don't know why. A decade of missing the playoffs warrants a lot of skepticism. I don't have an issue with you being skeptical about their ability to successfully rebuild. But this whole narrative that rebuilding was just a ruse to purge the clubhouse of Sale and Eaton is just nutty fan claptrap supported by no evidence. They are rebuilding. How long it will take and how successful they will be in doing so is another matter. They almost certainly won't be as successful as the Cubs. Thinking they will is as goofy as thinking Schwarber will be a Hall of Famer. Maybe one or both things will happen but both are highly unlikely. I'm not saying they are purging Sale and Eaton for being clubhouse cancers. I'm quite simply saying they are incompetent and don't really know what they are doing, which is why it's foolish for any of us to presume to know what they are doing either. That's a different argument than the one the other guy is making. He's saying they're not rebuilding. I'm only speaking for myself in this thread and all threads. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. What should they do now? |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That's fair. If there isn't more than 1 deal before the deadline, it's a half-assed "rebuild". If there is more than 1 deal, they are committed to their plan. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. What should they do now? Trade Frazier and Robertson now to eliminate the risk of them getting hurt or being terrible and getting nothing for them. |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That is complete nonsense. You haven't the slightest idea what value any of them will have at the deadline. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
leashyourkids wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That is complete nonsense. You haven't the slightest idea what value any of them will have at the deadline. I don't know why you would think that. It's not really that difficult. You take into account their age, talent, and contract, and then take into account the scarcity of their position and what players of similar value have brought in deals over the past couple years. I'm starting to think you don't have the slightest idea what their value is. You're all over the place in this thread. A page ago you were saying we were overestimating the return these guys will bring in. I responded by saying it won't be a good return either way, and now all of a sudden you're implying that they WILL bring in a good return by waiting until the deadline. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Terry's Peeps wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That's fair. If there isn't more than 1 deal before the deadline, it's a half-assed "rebuild". If there is more than 1 deal, they are committed to their plan. Where it gets tricky is if they are surprise contenders. You have an 80 year old owner who is a guy who was crucified for the "White Flag" trade. But I think the fans are in a different place with the Cubs coming off a World Series and the Sox mired in mediocrity than they were when the "White Flag" deal was made. As a fan I wouldn't want them to abandon the rebuild to chase a one game Wild Card, but if they somehow have a realistic shot at winning the division, I think you have to go for it. You only get so many chances. |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
FavreFan wrote: leashyourkids wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That is complete nonsense. You haven't the slightest idea what value any of them will have at the deadline. I don't know why you would think that. It's not really that difficult. You take into account their age, talent, and contract, and then take into account the scarcity of their position and what players of similar value have brought in deals over the past couple years. I'm starting to think you don't have the slightest idea what their value is. You're all over the place in this thread. A page ago you were saying we were overestimating the return these guys will bring in. I responded by saying it won't be a good return either way, and now all of a sudden you're implying that they WILL bring in a good return by waiting until the deadline. I didn't imply that, but you can certainly make it up if you wish. They are, however, LIKELY to have more value at the deadline, and it has nothing to do with their performance. It's because contenders will have specific needs at the deadline that these guys may be capable of filling. There's the possibility that they will suck and have very little value, too, but that's much less likely, and you're not going to get much for them now anyway. |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That's fair. If there isn't more than 1 deal before the deadline, it's a half-assed "rebuild". If there is more than 1 deal, they are committed to their plan. Where it gets tricky is if they are surprise contenders. You have an 80 year old owner who is a guy who was crucified for the "White Flag" trade. But I think the fans are in a different place with the Cubs coming off a World Series and the Sox mired in mediocrity than they were when the "White Flag" deal was made. As a fan I wouldn't want them to abandon the rebuild to chase a one game Wild Card, but if they somehow have a realistic shot at winning the division, I think you have to go for it. You only get so many chances. Agreed. Aside from the one-game play-in which dramatically lowers odds, once you get in, you have a decent shot. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That's fair. If there isn't more than 1 deal before the deadline, it's a half-assed "rebuild". If there is more than 1 deal, they are committed to their plan. Where it gets tricky is if they are surprise contenders. You have an 80 year old owner who is a guy who was crucified for the "White Flag" trade. But I think the fans are in a different place with the Cubs coming off a World Series and the Sox mired in mediocrity than they were when the "White Flag" deal was made. As a fan I wouldn't want them to abandon the rebuild to chase a one game Wild Card, but if they somehow have a realistic shot at winning the division, I think you have to go for it. You only get so many chances. Yes I'm going on the assumption that the Sox will be terrible. If by some miracle Ricky "Raw Deal" Renteria has them in the hunt for the division that changes things. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
FavreFan wrote: leashyourkids wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That is complete nonsense. You haven't the slightest idea what value any of them will have at the deadline. I don't know why you would think that. It's not really that difficult. You take into account their age, talent, and contract, and then take into account the scarcity of their position and what players of similar value have brought in deals over the past couple years. I'm starting to think you don't have the slightest idea what their value is. You're all over the place in this thread. A page ago you were saying we were overestimating the return these guys will bring in. I responded by saying it won't be a good return either way, and now all of a sudden you're implying that they WILL bring in a good return by waiting until the deadline. I will admit I have no idea what their value is or what it will be at the deadline. I assume it isn't enough now to make it worth trading them. But I think the ages and contracts are irrelevant. The guys we're talking about, if they can be traded, will be traded to teams who want them for three months. I'm pretty sure Melky's bat is better than at least a few outfielders on teams that will be in contention. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
leashyourkids wrote: I didn't imply that, but you can certainly make it up if you wish. They are, however, LIKELY to have more value at the deadline, and it has nothing to do with their performance. It's because contenders will have specific needs at the deadline that these guys may be capable of filling. There's the possibility that they will suck and have very little value, too, but that's much less likely, and you're not going to get much for them now anyway. You're saying it's more likely that Robertson increases his value than decreases it. I don't agree with you. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: FavreFan wrote: leashyourkids wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That is complete nonsense. You haven't the slightest idea what value any of them will have at the deadline. I don't know why you would think that. It's not really that difficult. You take into account their age, talent, and contract, and then take into account the scarcity of their position and what players of similar value have brought in deals over the past couple years. I'm starting to think you don't have the slightest idea what their value is. You're all over the place in this thread. A page ago you were saying we were overestimating the return these guys will bring in. I responded by saying it won't be a good return either way, and now all of a sudden you're implying that they WILL bring in a good return by waiting until the deadline. I will admit I have no idea what their value is or what it will be at the deadline. I assume it isn't enough now to make it worth trading them. But I think the ages and contracts are irrelevant. The guys we're talking about, if they can be traded, will be traded to teams who want them for three months. I'm pretty sure Melky's bat is better than at least a few outfielders on teams that will be in contention. When I said contract I was thinking specifically of Robertson and Quintana. With Robertson, you're gonna have to eat some of that salary if you want to maximize the prospect you get in return. With Quintana, obviously the contract is one of the more appealing features of a potential trade. |
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| Author: | America [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Melky has strong leadership (much stronger than Frazier) intangibles and the Sox system is pretty much void of good corner OF prospects. I have no problem keeping Melky around and re-signing him. I also dont have a problem with trading him. Same applies to Abreu except I am way more in favor of keeping him around because I like him as a person and a player and the Sox will need some continuity. The rest need to go. That is Frazier, Robertson, Jones, Jennings and most of all Quintana. Really these guys should all have been gone already. Its Miguel Gonzalez, Derek Holland and James Shields who genuinely fit the "wait until the deadline" mentality because they all would have to put up a few solid months of production before being viable trade pieces. Also they aren't blocking anyone's path to the majors as it wont be until June at least that we see Rey Lopez or Lucas Giolito, the latter could be a long time because of all the work he needs undoing the National's bungling. I'm also not saying to DFA them, just give them away to anyone who will pay them. I think all four of them at least net a C-level prospects and Quintana (for now) probably gets you a decent headliner with a couple others. But if I'm wrong and some of them are totally worthless then fuck it, just give them away so other guys get playing time. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
You said put them on waivers, which basically means DFA. That is absolutely idiotic. |
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| Author: | America [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
It doesn't mean that at all |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
leashyourkids wrote: I must say that, when talking baseball, JORR and Frank are strange bedfellows (for me). Lyin leash at it again!
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| Author: | Chus [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That's fair. If there isn't more than 1 deal before the deadline, it's a half-assed "rebuild". If there is more than 1 deal, they are committed to their plan. Where it gets tricky is if they are surprise contenders. You have an 80 year old owner who is a guy who was crucified for the "White Flag" trade. But I think the fans are in a different place with the Cubs coming off a World Series and the Sox mired in mediocrity than they were when the "White Flag" deal was made. As a fan I wouldn't want them to abandon the rebuild to chase a one game Wild Card, but if they somehow have a realistic shot at winning the division, I think you have to go for it. You only get so many chances. See: Washington Nationals |
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| Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Not to get off topic of the White Sox having a secret plan to trade Sale and not rebuild, buy Moncada homered last night. Hopefully this is enough to convince some teams he is a prospect, so that the Sox can trade him for a veteran pitcher or something. |
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| Author: | America [ Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Charlotte is scoring like 15 runs a game. |
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| Author: | America [ Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
0/4 w 3 K's today. Long way to go. |
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| Author: | Scooter [ Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
America wrote: 0/4 w 3 K's today. Long way to go. Good thing you see this. MANY Cannot. |
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| Author: | Scooter [ Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
America wrote: Charlotte is scoring like 15 runs a game. So are many minor leauge teams
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| Author: | Elmhurst Steve [ Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: FavreFan wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Collin McHugh of the Astros has been shut down for six weeks with a posterior impingement of his right elbow. Gary Sanchez and Greg Bird of the Yankees both were hurt in a game recently. Frazier and Quintana will have value as teams deal with more injuries. If there isn't a deal at the deadline, then FF has a point. If there is only one deal at the deadline then I believe I have won this argument. If they move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson before the deadline I will concede. That's fair. If there isn't more than 1 deal before the deadline, it's a half-assed "rebuild". If there is more than 1 deal, they are committed to their plan. Where it gets tricky is if they are surprise contenders. You have an 80 year old owner who is a guy who was crucified for the "White Flag" trade. But I think the fans are in a different place with the Cubs coming off a World Series and the Sox mired in mediocrity than they were when the "White Flag" deal was made. As a fan I wouldn't want them to abandon the rebuild to chase a one game Wild Card, but if they somehow have a realistic shot at winning the division, I think you have to go for it. You only get so many chances. OMG.....you cannot seriously be entertaining the idea that the White Sox may contend for their division THIS YEAR? No chance. Even talking about IF......is silly. That team is not going to finish .500 , much less contend with the Indians. Nor should they try to, as the rebuild should be the only focus, with long term goals the priority, rather than short term hallucinations. |
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| Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Scooter wrote: America wrote: 0/4 w 3 K's today. Long way to go. Good thing you see this. MANY Cannot. Because he had one bad game? Cubs fans rooting for this guy to fail are pathetic. |
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| Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yoan Moncada Watch |
Scooter wrote: America wrote: Charlotte is scoring like 15 runs a game. So are many minor leauge teams Which ones would those be? |
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