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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:13 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
America wrote:
I would gladly take the guy who's going to throw 200 very effective innings for me


So...which one are you going to choose? Buehrle averaged 221 innings per season over his career, Javy averaged 216.

Its true that Vazquez had some nice years for the Expos in a bygone era where all pitchers were on the pilates and green tea and could throw 200+ innings without getting hurt. He was never that pitcher again except that one year for the Braves, but he never really did it consistently after the Yankees ruined him.

Buehrle OTOH... guy was like clockwork. Every single season was 200 quality innings.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Nas wrote:
America wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

Vasquez is also very good! They are close, and I think Javy is "better"--both in terms of WAR and in the sense that I'd rather build a team around a 21-year old Javier Vasquez than a 21-year old Mark Buehrle. You're just remember the times confirmation bias kicked in with the "3rd inning Javy" stuff.

OK this is a bullshit way of evaluating two players that are retired and speaks to the damage being wrought on the psyche of the average baseball fan by Theo and his Plan. We can save that discussion for another time, though.

If a genie presented me with the option of having Mark Buehrle reincarnate at 21 years old join the White Sox, or a Javy Vazquez counterpart, I would gladly take the guy who's going to throw 200 very effective innings for me over the next 15 seasons and only have to worry about 4 spots in the rotation until 2031.


Agreed! Buehrle was consistent and an innings eater. That being said taking both at their absolute best for 1 game is a different argument.


True. Buehrle would win the game and Vazquez would likely lose it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:14 pm 
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JLC probably thinks that Greg Maddux was lucky too because he didn't strike out batters nearly as much as the great Javy Vazquez.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:16 pm 
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Nas wrote:

Agreed! Buehrle was consistent and an innings eater. That being said taking both at their absolute best for 1 game is a different argument.

Well Buehrle is the only pitcher ever to face the minimum 27 in a CG three times in his career (I believe Koufax is the only other to do it more than once, and he did it twice). So yea, I'll take the guy who won a ring and has a perfect game on his resume at his best rather than some bum who's best years came in Montreal and Atlanta.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:16 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
America wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

Vasquez is also very good! They are close, and I think Javy is "better"--both in terms of WAR and in the sense that I'd rather build a team around a 21-year old Javier Vasquez than a 21-year old Mark Buehrle. You're just remember the times confirmation bias kicked in with the "3rd inning Javy" stuff.

OK this is a bullshit way of evaluating two players that are retired and speaks to the damage being wrought on the psyche of the average baseball fan by Theo and his Plan. We can save that discussion for another time, though.

If a genie presented me with the option of having Mark Buehrle reincarnate at 21 years old join the White Sox, or a Javy Vazquez counterpart, I would gladly take the guy who's going to throw 200 very effective innings for me over the next 15 seasons and only have to worry about 4 spots in the rotation until 2031.


Agreed! Buehrle was consistent and an innings eater. That being said taking both at their absolute best for 1 game is a different argument.


True. Buehrle would win the game and Vazquez would likely lose it.


I'm not so sure but the fan in me would take Buehrle. I loved the guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:19 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
America wrote:
I would gladly take the guy who's going to throw 200 very effective innings for me


So...which one are you going to choose? Buehrle averaged 221 innings per season over his career, Javy averaged 216.


He said very effective.


How do you define "effective" and further, how do you define "very effective", and define them such that other players may be defined in the same context, and compared?


I have to fall back on the old SCOTUS statement, "I know it when I see it".

Your numbers tell the story that both players are similar. I can also give you similar height, weight, breast/butt/waist measurements of two women but that doesnt make them equally attractive. You have to use your eyes and see that one is classically attractive and the other is missing a couple teeth and has a face covered in warts.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
America wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

Vasquez is also very good! They are close, and I think Javy is "better"--both in terms of WAR and in the sense that I'd rather build a team around a 21-year old Javier Vasquez than a 21-year old Mark Buehrle. You're just remember the times confirmation bias kicked in with the "3rd inning Javy" stuff.

OK this is a bullshit way of evaluating two players that are retired and speaks to the damage being wrought on the psyche of the average baseball fan by Theo and his Plan. We can save that discussion for another time, though.

If a genie presented me with the option of having Mark Buehrle reincarnate at 21 years old join the White Sox, or a Javy Vazquez counterpart, I would gladly take the guy who's going to throw 200 very effective innings for me over the next 15 seasons and only have to worry about 4 spots in the rotation until 2031.


Agreed! Buehrle was consistent and an innings eater. That being said taking both at their absolute best for 1 game is a different argument.


True. Buehrle would win the game and Vazquez would likely lose it.


Not enough run support.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:43 pm 
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America wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
America wrote:
I would gladly take the guy who's going to throw 200 very effective innings for me


So...which one are you going to choose? Buehrle averaged 221 innings per season over his career, Javy averaged 216.

Its true that Vazquez had some nice years for the Expos in a bygone era where all pitchers were on the pilates and green tea and could throw 200+ innings without getting hurt. He was never that pitcher again except that one year for the Braves, but he never really did it consistently after the Yankees ruined him.


You mean...except for 2005-2009, right?

Image

For reference, here's Javy in the Expo's years:

Image

That's a better FIP, WHIP, ERA+, K/9, and per season and per 162 innings averages for post-NY Vazquez than Pre-.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:56 pm 
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Vasquez would pitch 4 of the best damn innings you ever saw then get shelled in the 5th.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Great scouting on Shields.

And they're stuck owing this gopher ball machine 27M through 2018 which is roughly 10% of their entire payroll.

Wow.

:shock: :lol:

Launch all these Bozo's.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:11 pm 
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45-43 at the break. I probably would have accepted that before the season but considering the start they got off to it's a disappointment. If they want to make a run at the division or the wild card they need a left handed power bat, a starter and two bullpen arms. They also need a catcher but they will most likely have to make due with what they have. Get to work, Rick.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
45-43 at the break. I probably would have accepted that before the season but considering the start they got off to it's a disappointment. If they want to make a run at the division or the wild card they need a left handed power bat, a starter and two bullpen arms. They also need a catcher but they will most likely have to make due with what they have. Get to work, Rick.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:24 pm 
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What is the weirdest moment you’ve had as GM?

One afternoon last summer, I was filling in as first-base coach for my son’s Little League team because one of his coaches had a conflict. It was playoff game, the team was making a nice late rally, and the whole thing was a great little escape for me.

Then my phone started blowing up. After a text from [manager] Robin Ventura that read, “No. Actually, he’s cut up all the jerseys,” I knew my little escape was over….

Spite


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Cry more.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
What is the weirdest moment you’ve had as GM?

One afternoon last summer, I was filling in as first-base coach for my son’s Little League team because one of his coaches had a conflict. It was playoff game, the team was making a nice late rally, and the whole thing was a great little escape for me.

Then my phone started blowing up. After a text from [manager] Robin Ventura that read, “No. Actually, he’s cut up all the jerseys,” I knew my little escape was over….

Spite



There is a fine line with crazy and brilliant. I think Sale's head is crazy, but his arm is brilliant.


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