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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:37 pm 
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America wrote:
Hahn told Dombrowski on Friday that they were 100% on trading Sale and were willing back off from earlier demands. They basically invited the league to come along and snatch him on the cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:51 am 
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Nationals reportedly offered Giolito, Robles, AND Lopez. 3 top 40 prospects.

Not sure if what they got is better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:38 am 
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I'd rather have what they got from the Red Sox than that, still.

The problem with the Boston package is not the headliner, Moncada is definitely worthy of being at the forefront of a Sale trade. The issue was the 2nd piece, Kopech, really should have been more like the 3rd piece and the throw-in lottery tickets make up HALF the quantity of players received. They could have even gotten away with Kopech being the second piece if it also meant they picked up a little more quantity, think some combination of Swihart, Sam Travis, ERod.

But after Moncada they fell way short in quantity and quality. This deal amounts to a longshot bet that Yoan Moncada is an perennial MVP candidate, at least on the level of Carlos Correa if not exceeding that. If he is, I mean wow hats off the Sox scouting department for seeing that because if Boston thought this guy was going to be that kind of player they would not have dealt him. The rest of the return is really a bunch of wild cards of varying quality, which would have been OK if Hahn had just gotten more of them to fill out the system.

But that Nationals offer sucks for Sale. For one, the headliner from the Nationals would have been Robles. Robles absolute, best case, tears through the minors like a madman, ETA is midseason 2018. More realistic ETA would be between opening day 2019 and midseason 2020...if ever. A lot can happen between high A and the majors. To me, with the injury and bad MLB debut, Giolito is no less a shot-in-the-dark than Kopech...if anything Kopech is trending up while Giolito trends down. Lopez is a lot better than Diaz and Basabe but at this point you've been hosed so bad with the first two you dont care.

If Rizzo is desperate, and he looks to be getting that way, Eaton or Quintana can get almost the same package from the Nationals as Sale got. Say whatever you want about the underwhelming return from Boston, Sale was the only guy the Sox had that could reel in something like Moncada. Quintana and Eaton would never get him, even in a climate different than today's where prospects are so coveted.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:35 am 
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America wrote:
I'd rather have what they got from the Red Sox than that, still.

The problem with the Boston package is not the headliner, Moncada is definitely worthy of being at the forefront of a Sale trade. The issue was the 2nd piece, Kopech, really should have been more like the 3rd piece and the throw-in lottery tickets make up HALF the quantity of players received. They could have even gotten away with Kopech being the second piece if it also meant they picked up a little more quantity, think some combination of Swihart, Sam Travis, ERod.

But after Moncada they fell way short in quantity and quality. This deal amounts to a longshot bet that Yoan Moncada is an perennial MVP candidate, at least on the level of Carlos Correa if not exceeding that. If he is, I mean wow hats off the Sox scouting department for seeing that because if Boston thought this guy was going to be that kind of player they would not have dealt him. The rest of the return is really a bunch of wild cards of varying quality, which would have been OK if Hahn had just gotten more of them to fill out the system.

But that Nationals offer sucks for Sale. For one, the headliner from the Nationals would have been Robles. Robles absolute, best case, tears through the minors like a madman, ETA is midseason 2018. More realistic ETA would be between opening day 2019 and midseason 2020...if ever. A lot can happen between high A and the majors. To me, with the injury and bad MLB debut, Giolito is no less a shot-in-the-dark than Kopech...if anything Kopech is trending up while Giolito trends down. Lopez is a lot better than Diaz and Basabe but at this point you've been hosed so bad with the first two you dont care.

If Rizzo is desperate, and he looks to be getting that way, Eaton or Quintana can get almost the same package from the Nationals as Sale got. Say whatever you want about the underwhelming return from Boston, Sale was the only guy the Sox had that could reel in something like Moncada. Quintana and Eaton would never get him, even in a climate different than today's where prospects are so coveted.



I am 50/50 in the trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:38 am 
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It is so Reinsdorf to sell the friendly contract of Sale and MAKE MONEY.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:30 pm 
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http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redso ... nt=event12

White Sox demand was Moncada, Kopech and Devers for Sale. Got talked down to Basabe and Diaz instead of Devers. You think if they would've just gone a little further pitting Washington and Boston against each other they could've gotten that pacakge? Because that was more in line with the return I was expecting and was hoping for.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:25 am 
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Way too kind.

Looks like Bryan and leash owe Rick an apology.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:28 am 
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Fun to look back on this thread

IMU wrote:
Because even though Quintana is a damn good starter, you're not getting a team's two top prospects for him. Especially not Giolito and Robles.

Heh heh heh

Anyways, Kopech has passed Moncada as the best/most exciting player they got back in the Sale trade.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:31 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.


:lol:

You just bumped the thread that shows you were saying he lacked power based on a 4 game sample size.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:32 am 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Sale for Schwarber str8^


We don't want that cancer in our locker room.

Agreed. Schwarber is better anyways.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:35 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

Completely wrong


Lack of power is not the problem. The injury is not the problem.

Your two reasons were wrong.

Here I'll put it in football terms for you


It would be like if you said you A QB was a bad pick because he would get hurt all the time. Then the guy starts every game for 2 years but just sucks and you bump the post of you saying he's injury prone claiming you were right because he sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:41 am 
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RPB and Leash throwing haymakers at Rick. This is crazy... stop the fight! The man has a family.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:41 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
RPB and Leash throwing haymakers at Rick. This is crazy... stop the fight! The man has a family.


Rick knows I love him despite our occasional domestic violence.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:50 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

Completely wrong

It's not wrong.

Power he once desplayed(2015 regular season)
1 HR every 17 ABs
.487 slugging
.241 ISO

Power post-injury(2017 regular season)
1 HR every 18.8 ABs
.427 slugging
.236 ISO

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:52 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

Completely wrong

It's not wrong.

Power he once desplayed(2015 regular season)
1 HR every 17 ABs
.487 slugging
.241 ISO

Power post-injury(2017 regular season)
1 HR every 18.8 ABs
.427 slugging
.236 ISO

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:53 am 
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That was an appropriate response. desplayed is pretty embarrassing

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:57 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

Completely wrong


Lack of power is not the problem. The injury is not the problem.

Your two reasons were wrong.

Here I'll put it in football terms for you


It would be like if you said you A QB was a bad pick because he would get hurt all the time. Then the guy starts every game for 2 years but just sucks and you bump the post of you saying he's injury prone claiming you were right because he sucks.
That's a bad analogy.

Schwarber was thought of as a future elite home run hitter prior to the injury. He is now a guy who was demoted to the minors because he was bad and many Cubs fans think he will ultimately fail to live up to the expectations. This is why you guys are so hung up on the "sample size" and "power" arguments when you are ignoring that ultimately I was 100% right that trading Sale for Schwarber would have been dumb.

Now, if you guys are arguing that my reasoning was wrong because Schwarber just sucks and the injury didn't make him suck less then I'll accept that and laugh. I just wish you had said that right away.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:58 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

Completely wrong

It's not wrong.

Power he once desplayed(2015 regular season)
1 HR every 17 ABs
.487 slugging
.241 ISO

Power post-injury(2017 regular season)
1 HR every 18.8 ABs
.427 slugging
.236 ISO


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This is why you guys are so hung up on the "sample size" and "power" arguments when you are ignoring that ultimately I was 100% right that trading Sale for Schwarber would have been dumb.

Now, if you guys are arguing that my reasoning was wrong because Schwarber just sucks and the injury didn't make him suck less then I'll accept that and laugh. I just wish you had said that right away.

This is clearly what we've been saying.

You made the right call on a hypothetical based on bad logic. It happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.

Completely wrong


Lack of power is not the problem. The injury is not the problem.

Your two reasons were wrong.

Here I'll put it in football terms for you


It would be like if you said you A QB was a bad pick because he would get hurt all the time. Then the guy starts every game for 2 years but just sucks and you bump the post of you saying he's injury prone claiming you were right because he sucks.
That's a bad analogy.

Schwarber was thought of as a future elite home run hitter prior to the injury. He is now a guy who was demoted to the minors because he was bad and many Cubs fans think he will ultimately fail to live up to the expectations. This is why you guys are so hung up on the "sample size" and "power" arguments when you are ignoring that ultimately I was 100% right that trading Sale for Schwarber would have been dumb.

Now, if you guys are arguing that my reasoning was wrong because Schwarber just sucks and the injury didn't make him suck less then I'll accept that and laugh. I just wish you had said that right away.


:lol: Whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:02 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This is why you guys are so hung up on the "sample size" and "power" arguments when you are ignoring that ultimately I was 100% right that trading Sale for Schwarber would have been dumb.

Now, if you guys are arguing that my reasoning was wrong because Schwarber just sucks and the injury didn't make him suck less then I'll accept that and laugh. I just wish you had said that right away.

This is clearly what we've been saying.

You made the right call on a hypothetical based on bad logic. It happens.
:lol:

You posted at the same time. Why didn't you instead just tell me that Schwarber sucks and my logic was bad because I was giving him too much credit? I mean, that is what you are now arguing. I was too kind to Schwarber and you knew at the time, even without saying it, that he would be this bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:03 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay
Don't get me wrong either. I would trade for Schwarber in the right package. It's just a tough chance to take that you are giving up one of the great pitchers of our generation for a guy with one season of results who clearly was either not 100% by the World Series or lacks the power he once displayed. Both of those options make it difficult to trust that you won't look stupid by giving up Sale for an average DH.
Bump.

"Average DH" is being kind.


He would be an excellent DH in a platoon system where he hit against RHP.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:05 am 
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I'd honestly rather have Delmonico, just to avoid the circus of hype and idiotic swings that follows Schwarber everywhere he goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:17 am 
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312player wrote:
I always knew the Sox were scared to deal Sale or Quintana to the Cubs, dumb organization from the top down..stop being a pussy and hear what the Cubs offer is

312player wrote:
Exactly, the Cubs are in a great position to pull it off and the Sox could capitalize.. They won't, they'd rather settle for less with a team in another city..they lack confidence and charisma, very insecure front office.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:19 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This is why you guys are so hung up on the "sample size" and "power" arguments when you are ignoring that ultimately I was 100% right that trading Sale for Schwarber would have been dumb.

Now, if you guys are arguing that my reasoning was wrong because Schwarber just sucks and the injury didn't make him suck less then I'll accept that and laugh. I just wish you had said that right away.

This is clearly what we've been saying.

You made the right call on a hypothetical based on bad logic. It happens.
:lol:

You posted at the same time. Why didn't you instead just tell me that Schwarber sucks and my logic was bad because I was giving him too much credit? I mean, that is what you are now arguing. I was too kind to Schwarber and you knew at the time, even without saying it, that he would be this bad.

What are you talking about? I didnt think Schwarber would be this bad and havent said that or suggested that.


Again, you ended up being right even though your logic was flawed.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:23 am 
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Rick, just stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:24 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This is why you guys are so hung up on the "sample size" and "power" arguments when you are ignoring that ultimately I was 100% right that trading Sale for Schwarber would have been dumb.

Now, if you guys are arguing that my reasoning was wrong because Schwarber just sucks and the injury didn't make him suck less then I'll accept that and laugh. I just wish you had said that right away.

This is clearly what we've been saying.

You made the right call on a hypothetical based on bad logic. It happens.
:lol:

You posted at the same time. Why didn't you instead just tell me that Schwarber sucks and my logic was bad because I was giving him too much credit? I mean, that is what you are now arguing. I was too kind to Schwarber and you knew at the time, even without saying it, that he would be this bad.

What are you talking about? I didnt think Schwarber would be this bad and havent said that or suggested that.


Again, you ended up being right even though your logic was flawed.
I guess it was leash or another poster today that said this is basically what he always has been.

I'll accept I was right for the "wrong" reasons. :lol:

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