What? I don't know that.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Do you think that being "championship caliber" in 2019 makes up for the minimum of 2 years that they are tanking?

_________________

Let's check with IMU on the shape of it's wing.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________

The Cubs are unimportant. It is an example of how people who study this more closely than you might disagree with your belief of "zero realistic chance".

What do you consider competitive? I'd say it was a team slightly above .500 who is in the race at the trade deadline.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

They will tank for half of 2017 and maybe less.

I have been consistent that tanking any season is abhorrent to competitive sports

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Well, why aren't you demanding that they not tank?

_________________

As far as competitive goes, I'm more interested in the expectations and effort put in towards those expectations than the end result. With that in mind, I don't expect the Sox front office to expect to be competitive until 2020, and that is why I can't get behind this offseason's efforts as of now.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

dolphin has it right, they are building up the middle. Every major acquisition since the draft has hinged on an up the middle player. In the draft, the first 4 picks were Zack Collins (C), Zack Burdi (P), Alec Hansen (P) and Alex Call (CF), all were college players too. When they dealt Zach Duke at the deadline they got back Charlie Tilson (CF). For Sale they got Moncada (2B), Kopech (P), Basabe (CF) and Diaz (P). For Eaton they got the three pitchers. You could argue that it started before the draft even, that they kept Tim Anderson despite going ALL IN the past two offseasons because he played SS. None of it is accidental and I am certain whatever return they are hunting for in the Quintana and Frazier deals consists of an up the middle player.

As far as 2B and SS are concerned I think they are set. Anderson proved a lot to me to last season and Moncada is about as good as prospects get.

They could still use more help at CF and C. Tilson is an OK option for a down year 2017 but unless he replicates Adam Eaton's breakout a better option is needed there. The only real option long term option they have at C is Zack Collins and nobody really knows if he can stick at catcher. Collins will be breaking camp at Birmingham or Charlotte, and if he breaks camp at AAA he'll be working with Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer and Burdi. That's a pretty compelling reason to have him skip AA.

The pitching situation is pretty exciting to think about and I figure they'll still be looking to acquire more arms as they sell off more pieces. I doubt anything quite like Giolito, Lopez or Kopech will be added though.

Fear not FavreFan. The best two baseball posters on the site are in agreement.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 1h1 hour ago Ann Arbor, MI
Abreu: "I am very happy about the White Sox acquisition of Yoan Moncada. I’m proud because I played with him in Cienfuegos...

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 1h1 hour ago Ann Arbor, MI
More Abreu: "I was his captain, and now we are going to play together again. He is a very talented player...

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 1h1 hour ago Ann Arbor, MI
More Abreu: "and it will be an honor to work with, guide and support him”.

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 1h1 hour ago Ann Arbor, MI
One more, Abreu: “(Moncada) is going to make a huge impact in the White Sox organization and both the fans and the team will be thankful”

So it doesn't look like Abreu is going anywhere.

To answer FF's question, nobody can answer this until Quintana is moved. If they move Quintana for guys in AAA or with some big league experience 2018/19 look more in focus, but if its lower level guys its 2019/20. I'll have an answer then.

there was a bob nightingale piece today that EVERYONE is gearing up for the 2018 free agent market, so 2019 is going to be the "going for it" season for a lot of teams.

It seems to me that will allow for some bargain contracts in 2017 FA as teams keep their powder dry.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

You land a Manny Machado and suddenly the timeline changes.

Machado is the one I could see them really going for. If the Otani situation changes they'll be hard after him too.

To me building "up the middle" means defense. I hate to say it but Contreras, Russell, Baez, and Almora, that's what "strong up the middle" means. I don't actually think Collins is a catcher, and I have my doubts about Anderson and Moncada in the middle infield. Charlie Tilson is probably a great centerfielder, but who knows if he can hit.

As for all these prospects, I would compare it to buying yearling racehorses. I've bought a lot of yearlings in my lifetime. There was a time when I tried to look at every horse that went through the ring at major auctions in the field. I never bought anything that wasn't an A or B on conformation and an A on pedigree. I had to have one out of every four I bought be successful for me to stay in business. If I hit with one out of three I was really cooking. I think that's the kind of hit rate you need with these prospects.

_________________
His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

funny thing is the sox are trading for all pitchers but if any of them become good they will never pony up to sign them for the long haul. they *might* sign position players to high $$ contracts but not pitchers.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

It's a little different when the prospects are this far along in their development. I think we should have a right to be sorely disappointed if the #1 and #3 prospects in baseball don't pan out.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I have no worries about Moncada or Anderson until they give me a direct reason to. Tilson will probably get his shot in 2017 but I expect the Quintana or Frazier deal to return a CF prospect that is either in or around the top 100. I think I can reliably guess what Hahn is looking from other teams after seeing what he's been up to the last 6 months.

CATCHER

This is the toughie.

The ideal situation is also the easiest, and that is Collins just stepping up and becoming an actual catcher. The Sox are clearly going to give him every opportunity to do just that. The guy already projects as somewhere around a .325 to. 350 OBP guy who, if things go right, can crank 20 HR a year. That's a huge improvement over what the Sox have had a DH, let alone at catcher.

The good news with Collins is the Sox seem more convinced now than when they drafted him that he can play catcher. There is nothing wrong with playing out this string all year. No rush to get his bat onto the big league club. It took a while, and he left once he started to really excel defensively, but they did it with Tyler Flowers.

That said they need some backup options, and aside from Omar Narvaez they have basically nothing at the position. Free agent options all suck too. Perhaps the Indians are really finished with Yan Gomes, maybe Sox can forgo trying to maximize the prospect return on Nate Jones and just deal him there. Gomes is a damn fine defensive catcher who can also play 1st pretty well. Wont get much offense out of him but he definitely knows how to run a staff.

Other than that I dont see many options. Catchers are at a premium around the league, especially young ones. I'm frankly thankful we even have Collins.


The Sox will lock anyone they like to a long term deal. The Sox are good at doing this, and its a little risky (John Danks...), but its not an accident that Sale, Quintana and Eaton were all on such team friendly deals. Tell a 25 year old "I'll give you $30 million now, but if you want to wait 5 years you'll probably get a lot more" and most of them take the cash now. This is especially true for ones who are expecting families, Eaton and Sale both had kids within a year of signing their extensions (Anderson just had a kid too)

People immediately think Schwarber when you talk about Collins because they are both big, LHH, college bat-first guys. But not only is Collins probably a better defensive catcher than Schwarber was (conversely Collins doesn't quite have Schwarber's bat), the White Sox also seem much more committed to keeping Collins at catcher than the Cubs ever seemed with Schwarber. Sox brass wont even entertain the notion of him playing elsewhere right now. Schwarber had 293 innings in Lf and 195 innings behind the plate his first year in the minors, Collins so far has not played (literally 0.0 innings) any position other than catcher and there's no indication that will change in 2017.

That's because Schwarber's bat is better.

_________________

Collins is going to catch.

Of course they'd like to keep him at catcher. But there is plenty of doubt about his ability behind the plate. Most teams figured he'd eventually be a first baseman.

_________________
His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

That's because Schwarber has a much better bat and The Sox are desperate for a catcher.

_________________

Schwarber can also just show up at the world series and drop his dick down on the plate and hit. You can't teach that, you can't project that, you can just appreciate it as being something special. There is no way in hell they knew he had that in him when they drafted him. In Collins I think you are getting a (hopeful) Mike Napoli. Napoli has been pretty damn good too.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!

Judging by the wings and the shape, I'd say its a falcon.

_________________

2017

_________________

Serious question. How could you possibly know that?

_________________
His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

I think you'll be lucky if either Schwarber or Collins is close to Napoli.

_________________
His mind is not for rent to any God or government.