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Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
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Author:  denisdman [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Curious Hair wrote:
New Comiskey is nowhere near obsolete. It was built in 1990 and heavily renovated through the 2000s. They should be able to get at least another twenty years out of it. If some new Sox owner wants a domed stadium, he is welcome to finance one himself. This state has no business spending at least a billion dollars on a sports venue. That's first-rate corporate welfare.


And I wholeheartedly agree. I hate crony capitalism more than anyone. I was simply laying out the case that the revenue side is different for each type of stadium, and may be enough to justify the additional upfront costs. All that bitching about the Sox open day would not have happened in Miller Park. And if that game did happen, how many people would have no-showed?

The entire stadium financing issue is crazy.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Kauffman Stadium is 44 years old. With the renovations they did, it'll probably end up being about 65 years old by the time the Royals want a new one. Realistically, New Comiskey should last the Sox through 2040. I can't imagine what they could possibly need that isn't there now, and a roof is a want, not a need.
Author:  conns7901 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Curious Hair wrote:
New Comiskey is nowhere near obsolete. It was built in 1990 and heavily renovated through the 2000s. They should be able to get at least another twenty years out of it. If some new Sox owner wants a domed stadium, he is welcome to finance one himself. This state has no business spending at least a billion dollars on a sports venue. That's first-rate corporate welfare.


Sox and Bears are both less than 10 years from demanding new stadiums from taxpayers. The new trend is 20 years and obsolete. See Atlanta, St. Louis, Texas and Indianapolis.
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Curious Hair wrote:
New Comiskey is nowhere near obsolete. It was built in 1990 and heavily renovated through the 2000s. They should be able to get at least another twenty years out of it. If some new Sox owner wants a domed stadium, he is welcome to finance one himself. This state has no business spending at least a billion dollars on a sports venue. That's first-rate corporate welfare.
I think your time period is too big there. If you take out Wrigley, and Fenway because they are "classic" and they are basically rebuilt recently anyways they just didn't change the name then there are only 4 MLB stadiums more than a year older than New Comiskey. I think a new stadium becomes likely in the 2020s whether it is in Chicago or in the suburbs.
Author:  MartyD47 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park. The most important thing is if it's not Wirtz, the new owner will be in good standing with Reinsdorf and Wirtz and the Hawks, Bulls, and Sox will continue their TV partnership leaving the Cubs to go it alone with their network.
Author:  Don Tiny [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
denisdman wrote:
I'd love to see Miller Park in Chicago for the White Sox. I love that place.

Hard to argue. Nice joint even w/ the roof closed.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
conns7901 wrote:
Sox and Bears are both less than 10 years from demanding new stadiums from taxpayers. The new trend is 20 years and obsolete. See Atlanta, St. Louis, Texas and Indianapolis.

Well, the Rams' stadium was a cheap piece of crap quickly slapped together for the relocating Patriots, who turned out not to relocate after all. And I don't think there was ever a real push to replace it; the play was always to get them back to Los Angeles.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think your time period is too big there. If you take out Wrigley, and Fenway because they are "classic" and they are basically rebuilt recently anyways they just didn't change the name then there are only 4 MLB stadiums more than a year older than New Comiskey. I think a new stadium becomes likely in the 2020s whether it is in Chicago or in the suburbs.

Well, would you take out Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium, and Kauffman Stadium? They're practically rebuilt too. I guess this makes the Trop the dean of major-league ballparks.
Author:  Kirkwood [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.
Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.



I wouldn't bet on that. We just built a stadium for a college basketball team nobody gives a fuck about.
Author:  conns7901 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Curious Hair wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think your time period is too big there. If you take out Wrigley, and Fenway because they are "classic" and they are basically rebuilt recently anyways they just didn't change the name then there are only 4 MLB stadiums more than a year older than New Comiskey. I think a new stadium becomes likely in the 2020s whether it is in Chicago or in the suburbs.

Well, would you take out Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium, and Kauffman Stadium? They're practically rebuilt too. I guess this makes the Trop the dean of major-league ballparks.


The Angels stadium felt like a 1980s relic when I went two years ago.
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Curious Hair wrote:
Well, would you take out Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium, and Kauffman Stadium? They're practically rebuilt too. I guess this makes the Trop the dean of major-league ballparks.
I was trying to not go overboard in making my case but you certainly could.

Wrigley and Fenway are different because of how much older they are.

It also will be interesting to see just how much the city pushes to get rid of the "sweet deal" that the Sox have in terms of rent.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Oh, whoops, I forgot the Oakland Coliseum, probably because of my Raiders relocation PTSD. Yeah, don't let your plumbing fall apart and Comiskey can last a really really long time.
Author:  conns7901 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.



I wouldn't bet on that. We just built a stadium for a college basketball team nobody gives a fuck about.


I would like to see the list of people who made millions off of that waste of tax payer money.
Author:  Big Chicagoan [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
conns7901 wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I think your time period is too big there. If you take out Wrigley, and Fenway because they are "classic" and they are basically rebuilt recently anyways they just didn't change the name then there are only 4 MLB stadiums more than a year older than New Comiskey. I think a new stadium becomes likely in the 2020s whether it is in Chicago or in the suburbs.

Well, would you take out Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium, and Kauffman Stadium? They're practically rebuilt too. I guess this makes the Trop the dean of major-league ballparks.


The Angels stadium felt like a 1980s relic when I went two years ago.


I think Angels Stadium is pretty good. Dodger stadium is pretty shitty, IMO. Like walking on to the Price is Right set in the 70's. No shade either.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
conns7901 wrote:
The Angels stadium felt like a 1980s relic when I went two years ago.

Well, it was built in the early '60s and renovated in the late '90s, so split the difference, I suppose.

What a fascinating timeline that park has. From a baseball park in the middle of nowhere to a football stadium in suburbia to a baseball park in even-more-developed suburbia.

ImageImageImage
Quote:
Dodger stadium is pretty shitty, IMO. Like walking on to the Price is Right set in the 70's.

Don't you dare shit on the Googie-inspired pastels of Dodger Stadium you fucking monster.
Author:  Kirkwood [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.



I wouldn't bet on that. We just built a stadium for a college basketball team nobody gives a fuck about.


I would. Arenas provide far more multi-use opportunities than a domed stadium.

Totally different projects.
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.



I wouldn't bet on that. We just built a stadium for a college basketball team nobody gives a fuck about.


I would. Arenas provide far more multi-use opportunities than a domed stadium.

Totally different projects.

How many days a year will the DePaul dome be used?
Author:  Kirkwood [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.



I wouldn't bet on that. We just built a stadium for a college basketball team nobody gives a fuck about.


I would. Arenas provide far more multi-use opportunities than a domed stadium.

Totally different projects.

How many days a year will the DePaul dome be used?

It is still under construction.

Their current home, Allstate Arena, serves as a venue for many concerts, Wolves hockey, and a flea market in the parking lot during weekends.
Author:  MartyD47 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Rick gets it.

The Sox are a sleeping giant.

I see the new owner getting a retractable downtown park.


Near zero chance of occurring.



I wouldn't bet on that. We just built a stadium for a college basketball team nobody gives a fuck about.


I would. Arenas provide far more multi-use opportunities than a domed stadium.

Totally different projects.


It's not about usefulness or need. The next owner of the Sox will be so politically connected that the politicians will cloak the new stadium in an overall revitalization plan for downtown. That's not to say there won't be haggling about it, but that will be for show.
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
So could a downtown domed stadium.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Has anyone looked at how MSG has renovated the Fabulous Forum into a concert venue? They did a great job. It's almost 50 years old and doesn't need to be wastefully demolished. Imagine that.

ImageImage
Author:  Kirkwood [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
MartyD47 wrote:

It's not about usefulness or need. The next owner of the Sox will be so politically connected that the politicians will cloak the new stadium in an overall revitalization plan for downtown. That's not to say there won't be haggling about it, but that will be for show.


downtown revitalization??? huh???
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:

It's not about usefulness or need. The next owner of the Sox will be so politically connected that the politicians will cloak the new stadium in an overall revitalization plan for downtown. That's not to say there won't be haggling about it, but that will be for show.


downtown revitalization??? huh???


Hahaha. We gotta get people back downtown! There's nothing there!
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
They were considering demolishing it and still may.

Also that location is ideal just like our hypothetical stadium would be.
Curious Hair wrote:
Has anyone looked at how MSG has renovated the Fabulous Forum into a concert venue? They did a great job. It's almost 50 years old and doesn't need to be wastefully demolished. Imagine that.

ImageImage
Author:  Curious Hair [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
I think you're thinking of the L.A. Sports Arena that was next to the Coliseum, which already did get demolished. The Forum seems to be here to stay with the Rams complex going up next door.
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
I read MSG and was thinking Madison Square Garden. Oops.
Author:  MartyD47 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Curious Hair wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:

It's not about usefulness or need. The next owner of the Sox will be so politically connected that the politicians will cloak the new stadium in an overall revitalization plan for downtown. That's not to say there won't be haggling about it, but that will be for show.


downtown revitalization??? huh???


Hahaha. We gotta get people back downtown! There's nothing there!


Exactly. The justification isn't going to make sense. :D
Author:  denisdman [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I read MSG and was thinking Madison Square Garden. Oops.


Speaking of Madison Square Garden, I really like that venue. I've seen two Rangers' games there. I would love to see a boxing card there.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Lots of minor league talent.
Huge baseball market.
Very good stadium deal.
Championship pedigree.
Underwhelming success based on the "win every year" strategy that MLB has decided is not correct.
Demanding fan base.
Potential of a new downtown domed stadium after Guaranteed Rate is no longer viable.
Coming sale of the team to a deep pocketed owner.

It sucks now but the White Sox could be a force in the future.

Huge baseball market controlled by the Cubs, with every reason to believe in the next few years, will only become more lopsided in favor of the Cubs.

Good stadium deal, as a result of blackmail. However, the ballpark is a sterile failure as ballparks go.

No Championship pedigree. The team has had 3 straight losing seasons. Each year the team claimed it had a team poised to contend, when they were just poised to pretend.

Demanding fan base, that fails to support the team unless​ they think it can contend. Which has led the patchwork jobs by the front office year after year until now. Even this year, they have hung onto guys like Quintana, Frazier, Robertson and Cabrerra, when all should have already been dealt for prospects.

They will not be getting another stadium built for them. Not with the State in such financial trouble and the Cubs not getting a dime for their ballpark. Those days are over.
In conclusion, the team sucks, the fans suck, the ballpark sucks and their near future sucks, with the chance of extended suckage for years to come, if they don't get more than a couple of the prospects to pan out.
Author:  Brick [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are the White Sox the biggest sleeping giant in sports?
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Lots of minor league talent.
Huge baseball market.
Very good stadium deal.
Championship pedigree.
Underwhelming success based on the "win every year" strategy that MLB has decided is not correct.
Demanding fan base.
Potential of a new downtown domed stadium after Guaranteed Rate is no longer viable.
Coming sale of the team to a deep pocketed owner.

It sucks now but the White Sox could be a force in the future.

Huge baseball market controlled by the Cubs, with every reason to believe in the next few years, will only become more lopsided in favor of the Cubs.

Good stadium deal, as a result of blackmail. However, the ballpark is a sterile failure as ballpark go.

No Championship pedigree. The team has had 3 straight losing seasons. Each year the team claimed it had a team poised to contend, when they were just poised to pretend.

Demanding fan base, that fails to support the team unless​ they think it can contend. Which has led the patchwork jobs by the front office year after year until now. Even this year, they have hung onto guys like Quintana, Frazier, Robertson and Cabrerra, when all should have already been dealt for prospects.

They will not be getting another stadium built for them. Not with the State in such financial trouble and the Cubs not getting a dime for their ballpark. Those days are over.
In conclusion, the team sucks, the fans suck, the ballpark sucks and their near future sucks, with the chance of extended suckage for years to come, if they don't get more than a couple of the prospects to pan out.
Didn't read.
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