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Now That That's Over- Trades
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Author:  formerlyknownas [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Peoria Matt wrote:
America wrote:
Hard to have a problem with this.


Hell no. Sounds OK to me.

So who is left on the list? Abreu? Avi?

55 wins
Author:  Minooka Meatball [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Likey.
Author:  America [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
They could have the worst post-break record ever.
Author:  FavreFan [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Peoria Matt wrote:
America wrote:
Hard to have a problem with this.


Hell no. Sounds OK to me.

So who is left on the list? Abreu? Avi?

I don't think they move either, especially Abreu, without someone blowing them away
Author:  America [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Gonzalez will be gone. Holland will be if they can find a taker (seems unlikely). 50/50 odds Leury goes. Avi and Abreu feel pretty unlikely but who knows...maybe somebody decides they are willing to pony up for Abreu and Hahn pulls the trigger. They are probably looking for another big return for Abreu.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
I think with Moncada up and Robert in the pipeline, the Sox keep Abreu as it probably behooves those guys to have a fellow countryman on the team to help them break in.
Author:  RFDC [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Gotta hand it to them. They are going after that 1st pick with all they got.
Author:  '77Cubs [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
RFDC wrote:
Gotta hand it to them. They are going after that 1st pick with all they got.


I'd be shocked if they didn't get the first pick now. Any Bryce Harper's in next years draft??
Author:  FavreFan [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
They're gonna get the first pick by 10+ games. I'm not sure they get to 50 wins at this point.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
'77Cubs wrote:
I'd be shocked if they didn't get the first pick now. Any Bryce Harper's in next years draft??

No. It's really early but it looks like California HS SS Bryce Turang is the best position player and Univ of Florida RHP Brady Singer is the best pitcher. They're both really really good but not generational talent good.
Author:  jimmypasta [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Goodbye Melky. I thought they could get a little more for him.
Author:  billypootons [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Shout out to Jim Rose for reporting that the Sox got the 13th best Prospect in baseball for melky. JR is always on top of his game
Author:  Big Chicagoan [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
I think Hahn is just trading anyone for anything at this point.
Author:  Bagels [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Big Chicagoan wrote:
I think Hahn is just trading anyone for anything at this point.


as he should
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
A further reminder that while Hanh is trying to mimic what Theo did, already it's "Faux Cub Rebuild". Hahn is breeding a losing culture. Theo's teams were never this bad, even during the rebuild. They fought hard every day. Everyone was held accountable.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Caller Bob wrote:
A further reminder that while Hanh is trying to mimic what Theo did, already it's "Faux Cub Rebuild". Hahn is breeding a losing culture. Theo's teams were never this bad, even during the rebuild. They fought hard every day. Everyone was held accountable.

Weren't they the second worst team in baseball for a season?

It's hilarious you are the only person I've ever heard who thought Theo was trying to win.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
A further reminder that while Hanh is trying to mimic what Theo did, already it's "Faux Cub Rebuild". Hahn is breeding a losing culture. Theo's teams were never this bad, even during the rebuild. They fought hard every day. Everyone was held accountable.

Weren't they the second worst team in baseball for a season?

It's hilarious you are the only person I've ever heard who thought Theo was trying to win.


That was 2012, Theo's first year. And the loss total was a result of the already Gutted/Aging roster Hendry left him. He didn't gut anything, the cupboard was already bare. He already started adding big league talent that year in Rizzo and he made a big time run at Darvish too.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Theo took over a 91 loss team. In 2012, the Cubs lost 101 games. In 2013, they lost 96. 2014, 89 L's.

Theo's first few teams were that bad.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Not a result of pure MLB roster gutting/tanking. The big one was Aramis Ramirez who walked as a Free agent after 2011. In addition to Rizzo, they also grabbed underrated, MLB talent like Luis Valbuena and David DeJesus. He even tried to fill the MLB at 3rd with Ian Stewart which as a disaster. There was a solid attempt to field a competitive 25 man roster on a daily basis.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
And they still sucked. DeJesus and Valbuena are not guys you win with. Theo wanted the Cubs to lose the first couple years he was here. They did. It paid off. Learn to accept Yes as an answer.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Frank Coztansa wrote:
And they still sucked. DeJesus and Valbuena are not guys you win with. Theo wanted the Cubs to lose the first couple years he was here. They did. It paid off. Learn to accept Yes as an answer.


On the bright side, the more we banter in the Subdivision improves your Cubs/Sox posting ratio.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
A further reminder that while Hanh is trying to mimic what Theo did, already it's "Faux Cub Rebuild". Hahn is breeding a losing culture. Theo's teams were never this bad, even during the rebuild. They fought hard every day. Everyone was held accountable.

Weren't they the second worst team in baseball for a season?

It's hilarious you are the only person I've ever heard who thought Theo was trying to win.


That was 2012, Theo's first year. And the loss total was a result of the already Gutted/Aging roster Hendry left him. He didn't gut anything, the cupboard was already bare. He already started adding big league talent that year in Rizzo and he made a big time run at Darvish too.
"Theo's teams were never this bad, even during the rebuild."

They were the second worst team in baseball during the rebuild. I guess the Sox may end up the worst team in baseball this year but I think any reasonable person would agree that there isn't a big difference between being the second worst or the worst.

Also, while I'm not comparing Rizzo and Moncada, he added Moncada to the team this year.

If Theo was trying to win then Theo was very bad at it.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
He was trying to foster a winning culture in the organization. Just last week you agreed with me that tanking is not good for the game of baseball and now it seems you are sort of on board with the idea. I admired your previous stance but disappointed that you have now "flip flopped" #Sad.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Caller Bob wrote:
He was trying to foster a winning culture in the organization.
Then as Rick said, he was really, really bad at it. Like really bad. He took over a 91 loss team and made them 10 games worse.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Caller Bob wrote:
He was trying to foster a winning culture in the organization. Just last week you agreed with me that tanking is not good for the game of baseball and now it seems you are sort of on board with the idea. I admired your previous stance but disappointed that you have now "flip flopped" #Sad.
The team was really bad though.

Tanking isn't good for the game. As I said though, I can't blame anyone who does it now that MLB has made it all but mandatory even for a team like the Yankees.

There are really two options:
1) Theo was trying to win those 3 years and he did a horrible job.
2) Theo was trying to lose to build for the future.

I'll go with 2. You can stick with 1.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Not as a result as pure roster gutting. I'd wager dollars to donuts Theo wouldn't not have sold either Sale nor Quintana with that amount of talent/cheap control. He would have re-tooled around them.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Caller Bob wrote:
Not as a result as pure roster gutting. I'd wager dollars to donuts Theo wouldn't not have sold either Sale nor Quintana with that amount of talent/cheap control. He would have re-tooled around them.
:lol: So now we have hypothetical Theo going into "win now" mode like the Sox literally did for years and got bashed for it.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
He was trying to foster a winning culture in the organization. Just last week you agreed with me that tanking is not good for the game of baseball and now it seems you are sort of on board with the idea. I admired your previous stance but disappointed that you have now "flip flopped" #Sad.
The team was really bad though.

Tanking isn't good for the game. As I said though, I can't blame anyone who does it now that MLB has made it all but mandatory even for a team like the Yankees.

There are really two options:
1) Theo was trying to win those 3 years and he did a horrible job.
2) Theo was trying to lose to build for the future.

I'll go with 2. You can stick with 1.


1.A
A strategic rebuild, only acquiring assets that were young and controllable.

The problem Theo found when he took over was that every other team in baseball was wise to the idea of buying out arb years and locking up young talent. The FA classes were horrific. Otherwise the team would have been much better/faster.
Author:  Hank Scorpio [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
He was trying to foster a winning culture in the organization. Just last week you agreed with me that tanking is not good for the game of baseball and now it seems you are sort of on board with the idea. I admired your previous stance but disappointed that you have now "flip flopped" #Sad.
The team was really bad though.

Tanking isn't good for the game. As I said though, I can't blame anyone who does it now that MLB has made it all but mandatory even for a team like the Yankees.

There are really two options:
1) Theo was trying to win those 3 years and he did a horrible job.
2) Theo was trying to lose to build for the future.

I'll go with 2. You can stick with 1.


1.A
A strategic rebuild, only acquiring assets that were young and controllable.

The problem Theo found when he took over was that every other team in baseball was wise to the idea of buying out arb years and locking up young talent. The FA classes were horrific. Otherwise the team would have been much better/faster.


What FAs has Theo acquired that have been good? Lester is the only one that comes to mind as a slam dunk. Heyward looks better this year but that first season was rough.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Now That That's Over- Trades
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
He was trying to foster a winning culture in the organization. Just last week you agreed with me that tanking is not good for the game of baseball and now it seems you are sort of on board with the idea. I admired your previous stance but disappointed that you have now "flip flopped" #Sad.
The team was really bad though.

Tanking isn't good for the game. As I said though, I can't blame anyone who does it now that MLB has made it all but mandatory even for a team like the Yankees.

There are really two options:
1) Theo was trying to win those 3 years and he did a horrible job.
2) Theo was trying to lose to build for the future.

I'll go with 2. You can stick with 1.


1.A
A strategic rebuild, only acquiring assets that were young and controllable.

The problem Theo found when he took over was that every other team in baseball was wise to the idea of buying out arb years and locking up young talent. The FA classes were horrific. Otherwise the team would have been much better/faster.


What FAs has Theo acquired that have been good? Lester is the only one that comes to mind as a slam dunk. Heyward looks better this year but that first season was rough.


um Ben Zobrist?
Also...

Luis Valbeuna who turned into Dexter Fowler
Scott Feldman who turned into Jake Arrietta
Jason Hammell and John Lackey both solid #3-#4 starters
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