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| Counterpoint: the rebuild is over http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=107426 |
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| Author: | America [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
All they have to do is take the best offers for the remaining pieces on the ML roster and see what they get in terms of draft position in 2018. So I guess it's not technically over, but the end date has been preordained. The only year of intentionally sucking was this year. Congratulations guys, we can look forward to trying to win again next year. |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
America wrote: All they have to do is take the best offers for the remaining pieces on the ML roster and see what they get in terms of draft position in 2018. So I guess it's not technically over, but the end date has been preordained. The only year of intentionally sucking was this year. Congratulations guys, we can look forward to trying to win again next year. The rebuild might be over once they get rid of 3 or 4 more guys before the trading deadline. But at least half of these prospects won't be ready to come up next year. And the guys who are coming up next year are gonna struggle as most rookies do. So they're gonna suck next year as well. So they're gonna get a top 5 draft pick in the next two drafts. Which is good. So they're gonna have 14 or 15 stud prospects when it's all over. If half of them hit, they're a great team. But I expect them to be competing for the playoffs in 2019. |
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| Author: | America [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
There's no reason to keep Robertson, Swarzak, Frazier and Mslky anymore. They won't be here much longer, all Hahn has to do is back up the truck. Hostetler is responsible for the draft and has probably been preparing for a top 5 pick since Sale was dealt. On Aug 1st the attention will shift to building a decent team for Abreu, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Avi (if he's not dealt) and Rodon to play with in 2018. They won't be making the playoffs, but I'd bet that team will do every bit as well as the Sox teams of the last five years (not a high bar). |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
America wrote: There's no reason to keep Robertson, Swarzak, Frazier and Mslky anymore. They won't be here much longer, all Hahn has to do is back up the truck. Hostetler is responsible for the draft and has probably been preparing for a top 5 pick since Sale was dealt. On Aug 1st the attention will shift to building a decent team for Abreu, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Avi (if he's not dealt) and Rodon to play with in 2018. They won't be making the playoffs, but I'd bet that team will do every bit as well as the Sox teams of the last five years (not a high bar). Yes. The Sox know that. They won't get as much for them. But they can get the 2nd or 3rd best prospects in somebody's organization for those guys. Probably get the most for Robertson. |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Hahn has done an excellent job. He got a better than expected haul for Sale, he ass-raped Washington for Eaton, and he got fair value back for Quintana. That's 80% of the value of the 2016 roster. Now he can focus on getting one solid B-level prospect for each of the other 4-5 guys with any value. If the drafting is as good as the trading, they will win the AL Central in 2019, because I fundamentally don't believe in Minnesota and the Tigers and Royals are going to crater. |
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| Author: | America [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
They will be in 100% try to win mode the instant Moncada is called up. Obviously won't sell out to win every game, but once Moncada is the lineup daily they will stop neutering the roster to sneak into a better draft position. I can't pretend to know exactly when they will start actually winning, mainly because they have clearly tried to build a monster pitching staff and the development of starter pitchers can be a bit rocky. 2019 seems aggressive to me, but if the rotation is good enough it's certainly possible. |
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| Author: | BD [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Won't the MLB Payroll be low as well by 2019 so they can go out and add some proven talent to the mix? Doesn't make sense to do any free agent shopping this off-season unless the free agent is 26 years old, but I doubt they will want to get into any bidding wars yet. They probably do need another draft or two to continue adding depth to the farm system. They have 7 or 8 of the top 100, but I think the perception of the system is that it's lacking overall depth still (at least, from some reviews from earlier this year). |
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| Author: | Pal [ Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Jeff Passan referred to the rebuild as a meal and they are 3/4's to the main course. Seems right. Gonna unload for a few more, get a great pick next year, treat 2018 as a year for a good portion of these guys to go through the major league growing pains, and grab 2 impact players in the 2018 FA class. Should be mostly up and rolling in '19 (even if they picked up the full tabs left on Melky and DRob, the only guaranteed money on the books after next year is Anderson and Jones). |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
I don't want to see moncada up here until may of next year (excepting for a September call up). No reason to start that clock |
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| Author: | Nas [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
good dolphin wrote: I don't want to see moncada up here until may of next year (excepting for a September call up). No reason to start that clock Completely agree |
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| Author: | America [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
I kind of agree, but I'll amend it to say I dont want to see Moncada up with the Sox until they are ready to start trying to win major league games. No reason to get the stink of this second half trainwreck on him. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
He should be on the opening day roster next season. Put up or shut up time. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
You are being too optimistic. Next year may very well be the losingest year in the history of the franchise |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
They were 63-99 not long ago. Barring MANY injuries, I dont think they do worse than that. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Well I sure hope they don't keep Moncada off the roster just to delay the clock starting. |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
badrogue17 wrote: Well I sure hope they don't keep Moncada off the roster just to delay the clock starting. They'll do what the Cubs did with Bryant - keep him down in Charlotte for a couple of weeks to get the 6th. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
You Sox fans hoping things fall in place like the Cubs rebuild. Yeah,good luck with your timetables. Ask Pirate or KC fans how long they watched their rebuilds. The first group of Sox rookies might all bust. The next move is to hold onto them or give up on them for the following season. Tough decisions are ahead for management. The Cubs were lucky it fell into place for them. After 108 years,luck was finally on their side. |
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| Author: | Peter Puck [ Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
jimmypasta wrote: You Sox fans hoping things fall in place like the Cubs rebuild. Yeah,good luck with your timetables. Ask Pirate or KC fans how long they watched their rebuilds. The first group of Sox rookies might all bust. The next move is to hold onto them or give up on them for the following season. Tough decisions are ahead for management. The Cubs were lucky it fell into place for them. After 108 years,luck was finally on their side. This is partially correct. The Sox don't have the luxury of playing in the suck ass NL, where there are only 3 or so good teams. It is going to be much tougher for the Sox to do this than it was for the Cub. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Peter Puck wrote: jimmypasta wrote: You Sox fans hoping things fall in place like the Cubs rebuild. Yeah,good luck with your timetables. Ask Pirate or KC fans how long they watched their rebuilds. The first group of Sox rookies might all bust. The next move is to hold onto them or give up on them for the following season. Tough decisions are ahead for management. The Cubs were lucky it fell into place for them. After 108 years,luck was finally on their side. This is partially correct. The Sox don't have the luxury of playing in the suck ass NL, where there are only 3 or so good teams. It is going to be much tougher for the Sox to do this than it was for the Cub. Sox also have dumbasses in charge of their rebuild instead of Theo. That's also gonna make it a lot tougher to succeed. Unfortunately many fans are happy about this, which means these same idiots get years more to fail before being replaced. It's gonna be a long road ahead. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Peter Puck wrote: jimmypasta wrote: You Sox fans hoping things fall in place like the Cubs rebuild. Yeah,good luck with your timetables. Ask Pirate or KC fans how long they watched their rebuilds. The first group of Sox rookies might all bust. The next move is to hold onto them or give up on them for the following season. Tough decisions are ahead for management. The Cubs were lucky it fell into place for them. After 108 years,luck was finally on their side. This is partially correct. The Sox don't have the luxury of playing in the suck ass NL, where there are only 3 or so good teams. It is going to be much tougher for the Sox to do this than it was for the Cub. Outside of the AL east, there are Houston, and Cleveland who is okay.. The AL central blows almost every year. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
FavreFan wrote: Peter Puck wrote: jimmypasta wrote: You Sox fans hoping things fall in place like the Cubs rebuild. Yeah,good luck with your timetables. Ask Pirate or KC fans how long they watched their rebuilds. The first group of Sox rookies might all bust. The next move is to hold onto them or give up on them for the following season. Tough decisions are ahead for management. The Cubs were lucky it fell into place for them. After 108 years,luck was finally on their side. This is partially correct. The Sox don't have the luxury of playing in the suck ass NL, where there are only 3 or so good teams. It is going to be much tougher for the Sox to do this than it was for the Cub. Sox also have dumbasses in charge of their rebuild instead of Theo. That's also gonna make it a lot tougher to succeed. Unfortunately many fans are happy about this, which means these same idiots get years more to fail before being replaced. It's gonna be a long road ahead. Rozner and his pet gimp were already mocking any Sox fan who wasn't on board with the rebuild. |
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| Author: | Cashman [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
good dolphin wrote: FavreFan wrote: Peter Puck wrote: jimmypasta wrote: You Sox fans hoping things fall in place like the Cubs rebuild. Yeah,good luck with your timetables. Ask Pirate or KC fans how long they watched their rebuilds. The first group of Sox rookies might all bust. The next move is to hold onto them or give up on them for the following season. Tough decisions are ahead for management. The Cubs were lucky it fell into place for them. After 108 years,luck was finally on their side. This is partially correct. The Sox don't have the luxury of playing in the suck ass NL, where there are only 3 or so good teams. It is going to be much tougher for the Sox to do this than it was for the Cub. Sox also have dumbasses in charge of their rebuild instead of Theo. That's also gonna make it a lot tougher to succeed. Unfortunately many fans are happy about this, which means these same idiots get years more to fail before being replaced. It's gonna be a long road ahead. Rozner and his pet gimp were already mocking any Sox fan who wasn't on board with the rebuild. I thought he was mocking the people thinking all these prospects would be up next year. |
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| Author: | Joe Orr Road Rod [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
312player wrote: The AL central blows almost every year. AL Central teams play most of their games vs. a league that is regularly 30-40 games over .500 vs. the NL. |
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| Author: | MartyD47 [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
If Rodon is the second best SP on the market after Sonny Gray I think there's a chance he'll go before the deadline. I saw today the Nationals are looking for a starter and another reliever. Rodon/Robertson for Robles+? |
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| Author: | TurdFerguson [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote: badrogue17 wrote: Well I sure hope they don't keep Moncada off the roster just to delay the clock starting. They'll do what the Cubs did with Bryant - keep him down in Charlotte for a couple of weeks to get the 6th. It would be closer to a month for him as he player a few weeks for the red sox. |
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| Author: | TurdFerguson [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
Moncada is a bit of a curious case. He pulled down a 32 million dollar bonus, but is optioned through the normal rookie arbitration process. The bonus was paid out evenly for 3 years. Considering he has already gotten paid once, it could be worrisome fucking around with service time. The last 3 years he has seen 10 million come on, starting next year his salary is set at 500K if he makes the bigs. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
MartyD47 wrote: If Rodon is the second best SP on the market after Sonny Gray I think there's a chance he'll go before the deadline. I saw today the Nationals are looking for a starter and another reliever. Rodon/Robertson for Robles+? Hahn dropped the ball, the Nats picked up Doolittle and Maddon.. Doubt Nats are looking for a closer now |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
312player wrote: MartyD47 wrote: If Rodon is the second best SP on the market after Sonny Gray I think there's a chance he'll go before the deadline. I saw today the Nationals are looking for a starter and another reliever. Rodon/Robertson for Robles+? Hahn dropped the ball, the Nats picked up Doolittle and Maddon.. Doubt Nats are looking for a closer now Jon Heyman was on this morning and doesn't think either of them is a legitimate closer. He thinks the Nationals will still look for a closer, but they needed to add depth for the 8th inning as well. Doolittle has only pitched back to back 3 times this year. |
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| Author: | Seacrest [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
312player wrote: MartyD47 wrote: If Rodon is the second best SP on the market after Sonny Gray I think there's a chance he'll go before the deadline. I saw today the Nationals are looking for a starter and another reliever. Rodon/Robertson for Robles+? Hahn dropped the ball, the Nats picked up Doolittle and Maddon.. Doubt Nats are looking for a closer now Do you still think that the Sox got less for Quintana last week then what was offered over the winter? |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counterpoint: the rebuild is over |
I believe they get more for Q 3 months ago, I would have moved Q first then Sale, I don't think they got enough for either pitcher... I think they got more for Eaton than either of those guys. |
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