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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:31 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Rafael Devers doesn't seem like he will be flirting with .200 the rest of the season.


Do you consider it tanking if a team is playing with its #1, #6, and #29 prospects on the team before September call ups?

Just asking as an academic discussion, not anything specific that I will use against you immediately after you answer.


Depends what you are doing with the rest of the roster. It is tanking if you trade just about every able bodied major league player away.


Would you consider it tanking if the team had worse talent readily available at the positions each of those previously mentioned prospects play?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:33 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Ya, it does suck they didn't get the best prospect. But when you're Hahn and just can blame Kenny then who cares.


They are both impenetrable to blame. Both were just ensured lifetime employment

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:43 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Ya, it does suck they didn't get the best prospect. But when you're Hahn and just can blame Kenny then who cares.


They are both impenetrable to blame. Both were just ensured lifetime employment

Not their lifetime's though. Jerry's.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:48 am 
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Moncada is a very good prospect, but probably one of the more overrated "#1 prospects in all of baseball" in quite some time. Red Sox certainly sold high in that regard.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:52 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Moncada is a very good prospect, but probably one of the more overrated "#1 prospects in all of baseball" in quite some time. Red Sox certainly sold high in that regard.

Common theme for prospect community to overrate the Cub, Yank and Red Sox system.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:54 am 
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KLaw didn't overrate him.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:55 am 
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Heard a rumor the other day that Moncada is Cuban for D'Angelo Jimenez.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:57 am 
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KLaw didn't overrate him.
:roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:59 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Rafael Devers doesn't seem like he will be flirting with .200 the rest of the season.


Do you consider it tanking if a team is playing with its #1, #6, and #29 prospects on the team before September call ups?

Just asking as an academic discussion, not anything specific that I will use against you immediately after you answer.


Depends what you are doing with the rest of the roster. It is tanking if you trade just about every able bodied major league player away.


Would you consider it tanking if the team had worse talent readily available at the positions each of those previously mentioned prospects play?


Were the Cubs then not tanking when they brought up Rizzo during the years of bad?

They can't get much worse. They have been awful with those guys up. Two of those prospects came up last year and were burning an option year this season whether you brought them up or not.

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Not over yet.
Yes it is.


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(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:05 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Ya, it does suck they didn't get the best prospect. But when you're Hahn and just can blame Kenny then who cares.


They are both impenetrable to blame. Both were just ensured lifetime employment

Not their lifetime's though. Jerry's.


JR is Heyman Roth

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:06 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Moncada is a very good prospect, but probably one of the more overrated "#1 prospects in all of baseball" in quite some time. Red Sox certainly sold high in that regard.


On the other hand, they sold low on Kopech

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:08 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Rafael Devers doesn't seem like he will be flirting with .200 the rest of the season.


Do you consider it tanking if a team is playing with its #1, #6, and #29 prospects on the team before September call ups?

Just asking as an academic discussion, not anything specific that I will use against you immediately after you answer.


Depends what you are doing with the rest of the roster. It is tanking if you trade just about every able bodied major league player away.


Would you consider it tanking if the team had worse talent readily available at the positions each of those previously mentioned prospects play?


Were the Cubs then not tanking when they brought up Rizzo during the years of bad?

They can't get much worse. They have been awful with those guys up. Two of those prospects came up last year and were burning an option year this season whether you brought them up or not.


Neither played enough to burn an option. Both have six years of control starting in 2018.

The Cubs were no longer tanking when they brought up Bryant.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:05 am 
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Give both Devers and Moncada 2 full seasons before deciding who is the better player. I remember MANY people projecting Beckham to be a future all-star after his first season.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:16 am 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
Give both Devers and Moncada 2 full seasons before deciding who is the better player. I remember MANY people projecting Beckham to be a future all-star after his first season.

That's a good use of the imperative mood.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:18 am 
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It's not either/or..Hahn should have got Devers AND Moncada


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:18 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:

Neither played enough to burn an option. Both have six years of control starting in 2018.

The Cubs were no longer tanking when they brought up Bryant.


Options and years of control are two different things. Options start burning up once you are on a 40 man roster.

Cubs were no longer tanking when they signed Lester. Who gave up 9 runs today.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


long time guy wrote:
(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:44 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

Neither played enough to burn an option. Both have six years of control starting in 2018.

The Cubs were no longer tanking when they brought up Bryant.


Options and years of control are two different things. Options start burning up once you are on a 40 man roster.

Cubs were no longer tanking when they signed Lester. Who gave up 9 runs today.

Clearly, Devens is no Phillip Ervin, who lit up Cub Park today.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
It's not either/or..Hahn should have got Devers AND Moncada




Exactly

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
It's not either/or..Hahn should have got Devers AND Moncada


Maybe the reason Hahn "settled" for Moncada and Kopech is because Sale's elbow is a ticking time bomb. The second half of each season he's started he's been basically a two-pitch pitcher fastball and change. They didn't allow him throw his wipeout slider because they were so far out of the race. It will be interesting to see how his arm holds up throwing that slider until damn near November this year.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:30 pm 
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MartyD47 wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
It's not either/or..Hahn should have got Devers AND Moncada


Maybe the reason Hahn "settled" for Moncada and Kopech is because Sale's elbow is a ticking time bomb. The second half of each season he's started he's been basically a two-pitch pitcher fastball and change. They didn't allow him throw his wipeout slider because they were so far out of the race. It will be interesting to see how his arm holds up throwing that slider until damn near November this year.

Bob thinks it was dumb to trade Sale.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:36 pm 
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What a game.

Edit. Wrong thread

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:10 pm 
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MartyD47 wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
It's not either/or..Hahn should have got Devers AND Moncada


Maybe the reason Hahn "settled" for Moncada and Kopech is because Sale's elbow is a ticking time bomb. The second half of each season he's started he's been basically a two-pitch pitcher fastball and change. They didn't allow him throw his wipeout slider because they were so far out of the race. It will be interesting to see how his arm holds up throwing that slider until damn near November this year.

Yeah, Sale sucks

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
MartyD47 wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
It's not either/or..Hahn should have got Devers AND Moncada


Maybe the reason Hahn "settled" for Moncada and Kopech is because Sale's elbow is a ticking time bomb. The second half of each season he's started he's been basically a two-pitch pitcher fastball and change. They didn't allow him throw his wipeout slider because they were so far out of the race. It will be interesting to see how his arm holds up throwing that slider until damn near November this year.

Bob thinks it was dumb to trade Sale.

It was. Oh well though

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Jimenez is the only reason this rebuild might succeed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:17 pm 
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America wrote:
Jimenez is the only reason this rebuild might succeed.

Kopech's nice too. If the Sox are really lucky he might be almost as good as Chris Sale.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Conns, now that they have two of their top three pitching prospects, their top fielding prospect and their top healthy bullpen prospect on the big club, is this still tanking?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:42 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Conns, now that they have two of their top three pitching prospects, their top fielding prospect and their top healthy bullpen prospect on the big club, is this still tanking?


Yes.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
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(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:34 am 
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If you're not fielding the best possible team in a given year, you're tanking. dolphin, you are just arguing degrees of tanking at this point. If you trade a top 3 pitcher in MLB, you're not trying to field the best team.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:24 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
If you're not fielding the best possible team in a given year, you're tanking. dolphin, you are just arguing degrees of tanking at this point. If you trade a top 3 pitcher in MLB, you're not trying to field the best team.


Why is it only a given year? In 2012 the Nationals tanked the postseason by not pitching Strasburg or the Dodgers are currently tanking because Kershaw could throw a couple innings out of the pen.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:18 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
If you're not fielding the best possible team in a given year, you're tanking. dolphin, you are just arguing degrees of tanking at this point. If you trade a top 3 pitcher in MLB, you're not trying to field the best team.


If you are playing top prospects, although you may be losing, you are not tanking.

Tanking is administratively intended losing. The intent at this point is MLB development of well considered talent whose work in the minors had deserved a promotion.

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