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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Seems obvious the sox have agreed through back channels to flip him to NY and Baltimore is well aware. Makes me think they must not be including a top top level prospect, or else, as has been said, what is the point? Unless they've completely soured on Giolito or Kopech.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Nightingale is reporting none of the top prospects are included in the offer. Didn’t think they would be.

Only it didn’t involve any of their prized prospects. Not even close. The deal they offered, two executives said, were based on the belief they would have Machado for only one season.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Nightingale is reporting none of the top prospects are included in the offer. Didn’t think they would be.

Only it didn’t involve any of their prized prospects. Not even close. The deal they offered, two executives said, were based on the belief they would have Machado for only one season.

Seems like the O's are afraid he's gonna wind up in Yankee Stadium.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
This also makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't the Orioles just trade Machado for Torres and Adams? You are basically saying Giolitto = Torres and that is insane.


The timing means everything. What if the Yankee offense is struggling in July and they're three behind Boston? If you mean why would the White Sox do such a deal, Well, yeah, Giolito is likely more valuable than Torres but it wouldn't be a one-for-one deal. The Sox would have to give more for Machado than just Giolito in the first place and they may be able to get a bunch more back from a desperate team. I agree that's a risky game to play because if you can't swing it and Machado walks, you look really fucking stupid. Unless you win next season with Machado.


Yes, I think the sole goal of this exercise (which I doubt gets done) is to hope they get more at next year's deadline than they would be giving up now. There is zero chance they sign him long-term.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:36 pm 
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tommy wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Nightingale is reporting none of the top prospects are included in the offer. Didn’t think they would be.

Only it didn’t involve any of their prized prospects. Not even close. The deal they offered, two executives said, were based on the belief they would have Machado for only one season.

Seems like the O's are afraid he's gonna wind up in Yankee Stadium.

Which is really stupid. They should just worry about making the best deal to improve their team. He ends up where he ends up.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:25 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
tommy wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Nightingale is reporting none of the top prospects are included in the offer. Didn’t think they would be.

Only it didn’t involve any of their prized prospects. Not even close. The deal they offered, two executives said, were based on the belief they would have Machado for only one season.

Seems like the O's are afraid he's gonna wind up in Yankee Stadium.

Which is really stupid. They should just worry about making the best deal to improve their team. He ends up where he ends up.



The thing is, they are not a team that is going to compete in the modern era. They don't have the money in the division they are in. They need to do what the A's do and accept it. So, why they are worried he will be a Yankee is beyond me, make a deal and get prospects.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:12 am 
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:lol: Hahn

He knew the Orioles would never trade to the Yankees so he thought he could just trade for Machado himself then immediately deal him over to the Yankees for Frazier/Torres and a bunch of other nice stuff. Orioles didn't like that idea so Hahn dropped the offer down to Carson Fulmer+ and now talks are dead.

Give him credit for trying.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:53 am 
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If that is true that is playing cut throat. I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:14 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
This also makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't the Orioles just trade Machado for Torres and Adams? You are basically saying Giolitto = Torres and that is insane.


The timing means everything. What if the Yankee offense is struggling in July and they're three behind Boston? If you mean why would the White Sox do such a deal, Well, yeah, Giolito is likely more valuable than Torres but it wouldn't be a one-for-one deal. The Sox would have to give more for Machado than just Giolito in the first place and they may be able to get a bunch more back from a desperate team. I agree that's a risky game to play because if you can't swing it and Machado walks, you look really fucking stupid. Unless you win next season with Machado.


If they were to trade for him, and give up 2-3 top prospects (may not even elite prospects), will they be able to recoup similar levels of talent at the end of July if they don't feel they can sign him long term? If they are not able to do that, I'm not sure why they would be making this trade.

How old is Machado? I'd have to think signing him to a long-term deal would be a must from this deal. I don't understand the risk of paying a preimum for a player who may not be here next year when you're supposedly trying to rebuild with young talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:27 am 
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Hahn is a savage. Love trying the backdoor move to the yanks. Even better is Baltimore bitching and him saying fuck you, now it's lesser prospects. Floats it out there and kills O's leverage over other teams. Love it


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:29 am 
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That's pretty awesome.

It's also pretty funny when you compare it to the "WHITE SOX WON'T TRADE WITH THE CUBS!" stuff that was out there before they made a huge deal with them and made everyone look dumb.

Why would the Orioles refuse to trade with the Yankees? The Yankees being good has almost no impact on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
That's pretty awesome.

It's also pretty funny when you compare it to the "WHITE SOX WON'T TRADE WITH THE CUBS!" stuff that was out there before they made a huge deal with them and made everyone look dumb.

Why would the Orioles refuse to trade with the Yankees? The Yankees being good has almost no impact on them.


The Orioles would be short-sighted to not deal with teams in their own division. If the Yankees can provide the Orioles the best return, it's crazy to pass on the best offer. I would disagree though that the Yankees being good having no impact on Baltimore - they are in their division. Now, if the Orioles are rebuilding and don't care if the Yankees are better in a given year(s), that's fine, but in general, Baltimore hasn't been a team that I recall that's rebuilding too often (like a smaller market team would).


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:17 pm 
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/m ... 953798001/
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The most aggressive offer, they say, was from the biggest surprise team, the Chicago White Sox. The White Sox lost 95 games last year in Year 1 of their rebuild. They may lose even more this year. They’re not supposed to contend until 2019, at the earliest.

So what in the world are the White Sox doing by making an offer unless they intend to deal Machado to the Yankees for even better prospects?

We are not looking to make any sort of move that’s aimed at simply jumping up and perhaps contending for a wild card or maybe even the division for one year,’’ White Sox GM Rick Hahn says. “The focus remains on the long term. Now we may take some calculated risks along the way. But the focus remains on putting ourselves in the best position for the long term.’’

Translation: The White Sox, according to team executives who spoke to USA TODAY Sports only on the condition of anonymity, indeed made a solid offer for Machado.

Only it didn’t involve any of their prized prospects. Not even close. The deal they offered, two executives said, were based on the belief they would have Machado for only one season.

Oh, sure, they’d love to have Machado for the next 10 years, and would have exclusive negotiating rights next season, but the chance of them dishing out at least $350 million for one player is about the same as the White Sox hosting a ring ceremony party for the Cubs.

Simply, the White Sox say, they would love to have Machado to help make them a better team, giving them a chance to sign him. If they are out of the race by the trade deadline, and Machado isn’t interested in signing an extension, they could then trade him and try to recoup their investment.

Yet, the White Sox insist they would not trade for Machado and immediately flip him. It would be completely unethical, they say. If the Orioles even wanted it in writing that they’d keep him around until at least mid-summer, no problem.

Still, the Orioles don’t believe it.....

Still, there’s the inherent risk that Machado would be nothing more than a one-year rental. It might be different if there were a guarantee Machado would stick around, but the Orioles refuse to give any team a 72-hour negotiating window.

“I don’t see that as a viable option,’’ Duquette said. “I don’t think it’s necessary.”

This is why the White Sox’s offer did not include one of their top prospects. It’s why the Cardinals didn’t even make a formal offer. And it’s why the Orioles may not receive a single offer that overwhelms them.

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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Losing more than 95 games next year would be an unmitigated disaster.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:21 pm 
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They can (and should) win 78-82 games next year without sacrificing some of the young talent they have already acquired.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:16 pm 
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America wrote:
Losing more than 95 games next year would be an unmitigated disaster.

Yeah, that was an out of town stupid comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:38 pm 
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It would be completely unethical, they say.



Isn't that the kind of shit that made Billy Beane a "genius"?

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:03 am 
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I kind of see where the Orioles are coming from but they cannot control Machado signing with them in a year. It feels like a desperate bid to delay the inevitable.

I cant imagine Hahn actually expected to get away with it but I'm glad he tried. The Orioles probably didn't take long to wonder why the White Sox, in the midst of a near complete tear down that began just barely over a year ago, would be interested in a one year rental of Machado. I still think there is a way to actually add Machado with the intention of holding onto him for 2018 (and hopefully beyond) but they'd have to be really careful about it. An interesting idea would be an Avi-for-Machado swap, but I'm sure the Orioles would only consider it under the assurance that the Sox would keep Machado or at least not deal back into the AL east.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:55 pm 
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America wrote:
I kind of see where the Orioles are coming from but they cannot control Machado signing with them in a year. It feels like a desperate bid to delay the inevitable.

I cant imagine Hahn actually expected to get away with it but I'm glad he tried. The Orioles probably didn't take long to wonder why the White Sox, in the midst of a near complete tear down that began just barely over a year ago, would be interested in a one year rental of Machado. I still think there is a way to actually add Machado with the intention of holding onto him for 2018 (and hopefully beyond) but they'd have to be really careful about it. An interesting idea would be an Avi-for-Machado swap, but I'm sure the Orioles would only consider it under the assurance that the Sox would keep Machado or at least not deal back into the AL east.


If the Orioles would give up Machado for Avi and a cadre of prospects no in the system's top-15, do that in a heartbeat. The worst case is you get to flip Machado at the deadline for a true blue-chip prospect, with the upside being you can sign Manny Machado through his prime, only wagering that Avisail Garcia isn't really as good as 2017 and a near-.400 BABIP indicates.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Quote:
It would be completely unethical, they say.



Isn't that the kind of shit that made Billy Beane a "genius"?


He'd sign guys that were primed for a bounce back year (BABIP fluctuations and such) and then flip them at the deadline for prospects when they did eventually bounce back.

But I'm not sure that trading for Machado just to turn around and try to trade him to another team is unethical, if only because it would be impossible. What better offer is going to appear from the ether for a White Sox-held Manny Machado that isn't there for the Orioles now?


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Quote:
It would be completely unethical, they say.



Isn't that the kind of shit that made Billy Beane a "genius"?


He'd sign guys that were primed for a bounce back year (BABIP fluctuations and such) and then flip them at the deadline for prospects when they did eventually bounce back.

But I'm not sure that trading for Machado just to turn around and try to trade him to another team is unethical, if only because it would be impossible. What better offer is going to appear from the ether for a White Sox-held Manny Machado that isn't there for the Orioles now?


Well, let's say the Yankees were willing to give up Torres, Adams, and a couple lesser guys for him but the Orioles simply don't want to deal with the Yankees. And let's say that the Sox would love to trade Anderson and Hansen, just for example, for Torres and Adams, but the Yankees have no interest in such a trade. You see what I'm getting at.

Anyway, Beane does that type of shit all the time, inserting himself into trades between other teams, trading for a guy he doesn't need or want just because he knows a team that does want the guy, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:05 pm 
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If the Yanks get Manny for a season @ 3rd..prolly win WS..i dont blame Baltimore from freezing them out.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:49 pm 
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I am really wary of trading for a prospect who is currently recovering from a major injury. Especially if the Yankees insist on charging full price for him.

The Sox could easily make a deal out of Andujar, Florial, Sheffield and Adams but overall their system is not what it one was. Some of the attractive buy-low candidates like Kaprelian and Mateo got sent away to Oakland and the Sox already got Rutherford. I'm not sure there is a Yankees prospect I would trade one-for-one for Hansen right now, unless Torres was verifiably 100% recovered. I dont know how that is provable until he starts facing real competition.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:05 am 
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It's too quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:05 pm 
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The bow tie says a resolution could come this week. It will be interesting to see how that old senile bastard Angelos fucks this up even more than he already has.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Realmuto demanding trade out of MIA. F Machado, and grab this guy. Make your run at Manny in 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:50 pm 
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You guys actually believe Jerry cuts a check to anybody for 300 million? Cmon..this is all just posturing by Hahn.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny Machado
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Pal wrote:
Realmuto demanding trade out of MIA. F Machado, and grab this guy. Make your run at Manny in 2018.

Too bad they already gave $15M to Welington Castillo.


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