Folks have confessed to things they didn't do.

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i am sure that must be the case here, right?

at this point, it happened 90 years ago. everyone involved is long dead. it just doesn't matter anymore. it is a good story though.

This is only a hunch, but I think Clay Richard will get a spot start Wednesday in Cleveland when the White Sox wrap up their series vs. the Indians in place of Jose Contreras.

I would never be surprised if any player gets caught having taken something they shouldn't have. Or if any player has taken something at one time or another. That includes the guys I suspect to be clean.

That said, I seriously doubt this is Contreras' problem. His issue has been with control, and PED's make you stronger and make you recover more quickly from injury...they don't make you throw strikes. His fastball is not as good as it used to be because he's old.

Got a question, Ranger...Did Contreras come back too soon from his Achilles injury?

I doubt, SHARK. He seems to be ok mechanically, he just can't hit a barn door with a bull's ass right now. This is the same shit that pissed everybody off the first half of 2005, and what got him traded out of NY.

He cannot continue to be marched out there, because he gives the Sox zero chance to win. Poreda, Richard, Broadway, whoever could do no worse at this point.

Pedro Martinez is still floating around out there too...

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LIke a torn achilles which he did come back quicker than expected

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Do guys on juice typically lose weight?

[ That said, I seriously doubt this is Contreras' problem. His issue has been with control, and PED's make you stronger and make you recover more quickly from injury...they don't make you throw strikes. His fastball is not as good as it used to be because he's old.[/quote]

LIke a torn achilles which he did come back quicker than expected[/quote]


Do guys on juice typically lose weight?[/quote]
So weight loss by players such as Thome, Howard and others is proof the were juicing???? Your arguement doesn't hold water.

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

LIke a torn achilles which he did come back quicker than expected[/quote]


Do guys on juice typically lose weight?[/quote]
So weight loss by players such as Thome, Howard and others is proof the were juicing???? Your arguement doesn't hold water.[/quote]


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I wasn't making an argument. I wasn't being sarcastic. I was seriously asking the question, so I'll try again: Do guys on juice typically lose weight?

If a player has a massive injury and comes back quickly from that injury, one could conclude that player may been assisted by something illegal, correct? Well, if that's the case, would it make sense if that same player actually lost weight in the process of recovering? Therefore, I'm asking the question in all seriousness.

So you can answer the question, Walt, or you can continue to be a d***. I think I'll know which one you'll try, so really I'm asking anyone else.

Clayton Richard to start Wednesday for White Sox
By Dave van Dyck

Left-hander Clayton Richard will start in Cleveland in Wednesday for Jose Contreras, who apparently will be sent to the minor leagues for regular work, although the White Sox have not officially announced that.

Richard started eight times last season and was 2-5 with a 6.35 ERA, but said that experience will help him.

"Coming up last year as a starter and spending really my whole professional career as a starter, I'm comfortable in that role and excited to get another opportunity," he said.

Contreras threw a bullpen sessions for pitching coach Don Cooper Sunday morning and said he felt fine.

"Whatever they want to do is fine," he said. "I just want to help the team win."

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Do guys on juice typically lose weight?[/quote]
So weight loss by players such as Thome, Howard and others is proof the were juicing???? Your arguement doesn't hold water.[/quote]




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I wasn't making an argument. I wasn't being sarcastic. I was seriously asking the question, so I'll try again: Do guys on juice typically lose weight?

If a player has a massive injury and comes back quickly from that injury, one could conclude that player may been assisted by something illegal, correct? Well, if that's the case, would it make sense if that same player actually lost weight in the process of recovering? Therefore, I'm asking the question in all seriousness.

So you can answer the question, Walt, or you can continue to be a d***. I think I'll know which one you'll try, so really I'm asking anyone else.[/quote]
Guys on the juice don't lose weight

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

What is Contreras stealing dollar wise from this team?

What is Jose stealing a year from this team dollar wise?

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I think he's getting paid $10 or $12 million this year.

I think he is getting something like $10 or $12 million.

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Do guys on juice typically lose weight?[/quote]
So weight loss by players such as Thome, Howard and others is proof the were juicing???? Your arguement doesn't hold water.[/quote]


********************


I wasn't making an argument. I wasn't being sarcastic. I was seriously asking the question, so I'll try again: Do guys on juice typically lose weight?

If a player has a massive injury and comes back quickly from that injury, one could conclude that player may been assisted by something illegal, correct? Well, if that's the case, would it make sense if that same player actually lost weight in the process of recovering? Therefore, I'm asking the question in all seriousness.

So you can answer the question, Walt, or you can continue to be a d***. I think I'll know which one you'll try, so really I'm asking anyone else.[/quote]

My claim is that he WAS on "product" and stopped taking it, thus dropped all the weight so quickly and the power. iIdo know guys who have come back from Achilles in 6 months and they are accountants and TV execs, so I would hope a professional athlete monitored by trainers could do it a bit quicker.

The guy is a shell of the player he was. Maybe he PUMPS back up over the next month in Birmingham.

Contreras is now on his way out of baseball. Contract expiring, why not take a few shots and risk getting the random tests?

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The Sox kept talking about how great Contreras looked in spring training. Now he can't get anyone out. Maybe warmer weather will help him get loose better, then he might be able to contribute something, later in the season. But I suspect he's done....

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Go Cubs!!!!

I hear Grandpa has to clear waivers in order to be sent down.If he doesn't do the Sox have to pay his 12mil?

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

He'll get his $$$ no matter what - it's baseball.

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Well, first bigfan, you would say that because you are, well, you.

Second, how do you define "come back"? My guess is that it is slightly more difficult, precarious, and time-consuming to "come back" from an Achilles injury and be in game shape if you're a professional athlete than if you are an accountant. Even if you're an accountant in some sort of rec league. The daily physical demands are MUCH different for those two types of people.

Third, I would also assume that if there is any time a player would be greatly benefited by using something illegal, a faster recovery from a terrible injury would be an excellent reason to do it. Wouldn't you think? Yet he's now thinner somehow.

Fourth, if it were the case he was using something before he was injured, don't you think his performance would have reflected that? And I'm not talking about pitching numbers here. Prior to the injury, Contreras was bigger, a year younger, and throwing 89-92 regularly. After the injury, he's lighter and is throwing 88-91 and 92 sometimes. May even be a 93 in there here and there. Not much of a difference really. Looks more like the natural deterioration of ability, to me.

I'm not saying he is absolutely clean -- there's no way to know for sure about any player, unless he's failed a test -- but I am saying it is unlikely.

I think the White Sox are on the hook for Contreras' salary, no matter what, Walt...I think because he's been in the majors as long as he has, Jose also has to clear waivers if he accepts a trip to Triple "A" Charlotte...I wish the White Sox would simply cut their losses and say "adios" to Contreras once and for all, but the options at this point are very limited.

Ranger how much less do you think Grandpa Joe weighs now...as opposed to 2005?

contreras sucks now, he sucked last year before he got hurt. he throws just as hard now is he did last year. he's like 45 years old. that is all.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Jose weight 2005 225



















2009 255 puzzling very puzzling

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I know it's been 90 years since the Black Sox scandal but there isn't a doubt in my mind that Contreras took money and helped throw those games.

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The onetime subject of ESPN's "Outside the Lines" with Bob Ley simply lacks control & something pitchers need to have to survive...Like in real estate, Contreras lacks location, location, location...

In 2 AAA starts Contreras is 2-0 with a 0.00 ERA. In 15 innings he's given up 4 hits walked 8 and struck out 10. He's obviously coming back to the big club so do they put him back in the rotation or in the bullpen? If he goes to the rotation who gets bumped? I think Richard has earned a few more starts with his performance yesterday. Maybe they send Floyd down for a few starts so he can work on a few things?

Clay Richard definitely had a quality start yesterday in Toronto, and according to MLB.com's Scott Merkin this morning with "Waddle & Silvy", #54 in silver & black might be better suited for the starting rotation long term. Richard pitched well enough to win had the bats warmed up for a change up there...

I want Richard to stay in the rotation unless he starts getting shelled regularly. If they send Floyd down to get himself sorted out then fine but I'd rather him stay up with that new contract and work it out up here if possible. Bring Contreras up for long relief and he might do a good job. Maybe throw a bit harder and stop dropping down so much and messing around. Go after guys and quit tinkering.

He should get at least one more start in AAA. That should give Floyd a chance to show a little more. If he keeps this up he deserves to be sent down for a few starts as much as Contrearas did.

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And men have lost their reason.

Anyone care to take a stab at how old Contreras REALLY is?

I'm thinking he's at least 42...

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