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veganfan21 wrote:

This Ends in Antioch wrote:

They still need a complete rebuild. I don’t really care what that looks like but they can’t keep rolling this thing out there.

We'll find out if AK is really interested in building a contender (blow it up) or if he just wants to remain in the middle, threaten for a playoff birth/get eliminated in the first round (stay the course). The latter is better for job security.

AK hasn’t accomplished anything and should be on the hot seat. If the Bulls miss the playoffs again next year, he has to be gone.

Agree 100%.

The worst part about all of this is that he came in with the reputation for expertise in player development, but he has traded away draft picks and allowed the team's limited young talent to stagnate or regress. He is the Ryan Pace of NBA executives.

veganfan21 wrote:

This Ends in Antioch wrote:

They still need a complete rebuild. I don’t really care what that looks like but they can’t keep rolling this thing out there.

AK hasn’t accomplished anything and should be on the hot seat. If the Bulls miss the playoffs again next year, he has to be gone.

AK and Donovan talking at 12:30.

That press conference was fucking sad. AK sounded content to continue with this core, especially Vuc.

Jaw Breaker wrote:

That press conference was fucking sad. AK sounded content to continue with this core, especially Vuc.

He might have to play it that way to keep trade value up. I'm hoping so.

But "obsessed with winning" is all perception. How Does The Butler for Lavine, Markannen, and Dunn trade look today? It was a helluva move at the time and looks even better now.
Garpax Screwed up by not tanking in the Luka year. If they tank that year the entire trajectory of the franchise changes. Instead they didn't and we ended up with Wendell Carter. And the rest is history

The Missing Link wrote:

Would you rather have Carter & Wagner or Vuc?

People leave and they get good. It doesn't mean if they stay, they get good. This is the Bulls, the organization of Tim Floyd, Vinnie Del Negro, Fred Hoiberg and Jim Boylen. It's a mom and pop organization that doesn't know what it's doing. They extended a coach that belongs in college.

I'm tired of hearing about all the guys they had, could have had, or whatever. It only matters if coaching and management is competent.

Nardi wrote:

That's why yelling "blow it up" and "rebuild" makes little sense. You can't do anything until Donovan is whacked first. Wendell Carter and Lauri Markannen actually did play for him and did squat and no its fair to wonder if the team would have been better with those guys.
And one of the things leaving and succeeding elsewhere does do is highlight just how inept the coaching and developmental side has been for the Bulls. That much is apparent.

And another thing. When the Bulls did "blow it up" last time (with the Butler trade) people around here bitched about that too. The very same people that are currently bitching right now in fact. And in hindsight Paxson got a major haul in that trade. 2 All Stars and a starting caliber Point Guard in Kris Dunn for a third tier star player is a major get.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
Jaw Breaker wrote: veganfan21 wrote: This Ends in Antioch wrote: They still need a complete rebuild. I don’t really care what that looks like but they can’t keep rolling this thing out there. We'll find out if AK is really interested in building a contender (blow it up) or if he just wants to remain in the middle, threaten for a playoff birth/get eliminated in the first round (stay the course). The latter is better for job security. AK hasn’t accomplished anything and should be on the hot seat. If the Bulls miss the playoffs again next year, he has to be gone. Agree 100%. The worst part about all of this is that he came in with the reputation for expertise in player development, but he has traded away draft picks and allowed the team's limited young talent to stagnate or regress. He is the Ryan Pace of NBA executives.

Author:	The Missing Link [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
Tall Midget wrote: Agree 100%. The worst part about all of this is that he came in with the reputation for expertise in player development, but he has traded away draft picks and allowed the team's limited young talent to stagnate or regress. He is the Ryan Pace of NBA executives. And he hired a coach that has no interest in developing players. Billy D left OKC for 2 reasons. 1. He didn't want to rebuild. Which is mostly another way of saying he didn't want to coach young players. And 2. He wanted a say in personnel moves. He'd never get that with a guy with a rep and track record like Presti. But he could get that with a rookie GM. And they have what they have. His stamp is all on this team.

Author:	veganfan21 [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
Jaw Breaker wrote: veganfan21 wrote: This Ends in Antioch wrote: They still need a complete rebuild. I don’t really care what that looks like but they can’t keep rolling this thing out there. We'll find out if AK is really interested in building a contender (blow it up) or if he just wants to remain in the middle, threaten for a playoff birth/get eliminated in the first round (stay the course). The latter is better for job security. AK hasn’t accomplished anything and should be on the hot seat. If the Bulls miss the playoffs again next year, he has to be gone. I agree with the overall sentiment. However I don't think it's in the Bulls DNA to act as you've suggested, which is again what I also think they should do. Paxson then GarPax had almost two decades at the helm. Again I share the negative outlook on the team, so keep that in mind even as I say they made the playoffs last year. Making the playoffs renews job security for GMs/VPs early in their tenure, like AK is, especially when you take over broken teams like the Bulls were. There's no way he's on the hot seat at this point given the low expectations and the playoff appearance in year two. I think the bar should be higher. But I think ownership would be fine with an NBA hell kind of a team that makes the playoffs occasionally while not triggering luxury tax penalties. It's the typical business of the balance sheet vs the business on the court. If the balance sheet works then AK has nothing to worry about...mostly. If Foreman hadn't embarrassed the org by promoting Boylan then he might still be around.

Author:	The Missing Link [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
Bulls have the 12th highest payroll in the NBA currently. Not elite but they are hardly among the cheapest either. Clippers have the highest payroll in the league and have yet to sniff the conference finals. Sacramento has the 24th highest payroll in the NBA currently. Memphis the 26th. You can put a contender together without having the highest payroll. They have to do better at identifying talent and also decide what type of team that they wish to have. You can't have the 24th best offense in the league when your 3 best players are one dimensional offensive minded players. Either your players aren't as good as you think offensively or the scheme stinks. I tend to think the scheme stinks personally.

Author:	Jaw Breaker [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
AK and Donovan talking at 12:30.

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bulls@Heat Final play-in http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=129731	Page 2 of 2

Author:	Jaw Breaker [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
That press conference was fucking sad. AK sounded content to continue with this core, especially Vuc.

Author:	veganfan21 [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
Jaw Breaker wrote: That press conference was fucking sad. AK sounded content to continue with this core, especially Vuc. Now we know he's unimaginative and oblivious to the concept of NBA hell.

Author:	RFDC [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
The Missing Link wrote: Jaw Breaker wrote: That press conference was fucking sad. AK sounded content to continue with this core, especially Vuc. He might have to play it that way to keep trade value up. I'm hoping so. That better be it. If they roll with the same unit for another year then the UC should be empty next year as fans boycott that stupid thinking.

Author:	veganfan21 [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
If fans didn't boycott the disastrous Hoiberg and Boylen eras how would you expect them to boycott the mildly entertaining semi-playoff team era. Again I'm with you in spirit but y'all seem to forget how we don't exactly have an ownership team obsessed with winning like other franchises do.

Author:	RFDC [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
oh I completely agree with you, it won't happen. But it should.

Author:	This Ends in Antioch [ Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
The Missing Link wrote: But "obsessed with winning" is all perception. How Does The Butler for Lavine, Markannen, and Dunn trade look today? It was a helluva move at the time and looks even better now. Garpax Screwed up by not tanking in the Luka year. If they tank that year the entire trajectory of the franchise changes. Instead they didn't and we ended up with Wendell Carter. And the rest is history Would you rather have Carter & Wagner or Vuc?

Author:	Nardi [ Sun Apr 16, 2023 7:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
People leave and they get good. It doesn't mean if they stay, they get good. This is the Bulls, the organization of Tim Floyd, Vinnie Del Negro, Fred Hoiberg and Jim Boylen. It's a mom and pop organization that doesn't know what it's doing. They extended a coach that belongs in college. I'm tired of hearing about all the guys they had, could have had, or whatever. It only matters if coaching and management is competent.

Author:	The Missing Link [ Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
Nardi wrote: People leave and they get good. It doesn't mean if they stay, they get good. This is the Bulls, the organization of Tim Floyd, Vinnie Del Negro, Fred Hoiberg and Jim Boylen. It's a mom and pop organization that doesn't know what it's doing. They extended a coach that belongs in college. I'm tired of hearing about all the guys they had, could have had, or whatever. It only matters if coaching and management is competent. That's why yelling "blow it up" and "rebuild" makes little sense. You can't do anything until Donovan is whacked first. Wendell Carter and Lauri Markannen actually did play for him and did squat and no its fair to wonder if the team would have been better with those guys. And one of the things leaving and succeeding elsewhere does do is highlight just how inept the coaching and developmental side has been for the Bulls. That much is apparent. And another thing. When the Bulls did "blow it up" last time (with the Butler trade) people around here bitched about that too. The very same people that are currently bitching right now in fact. And in hindsight Paxson got a major haul in that trade. 2 All Stars and a starting caliber Point Guard in Kris Dunn for a third tier star player is a major get.

Author:	Nardi [ Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
The Missing Link wrote: Nardi wrote: People leave and they get good. It doesn't mean if they stay, they get good. This is the Bulls, the organization of Tim Floyd, Vinnie Del Negro, Fred Hoiberg and Jim Boylen. It's a mom and pop organization that doesn't know what it's doing. They extended a coach that belongs in college. I'm tired of hearing about all the guys they had, could have had, or whatever. It only matters if coaching and management is competent. That's why yelling "blow it up" and "rebuild" makes little sense. You can't do anything until Donovan is whacked first. Wendell Carter and Lauri Markannen actually did play for him and did squat and no its fair to wonder if the team would have been better with those guys. And one of the things leaving and succeeding elsewhere does do is highlight just how inept the coaching and developmental side has been for the Bulls. That much is apparent. And another thing. When the Bulls did "blow it up" last time (with the Butler trade) people around here bitched about that too. The very same people that are currently bitching right now in fact. And in hindsight Paxson got a major haul in that trade. 2 All Stars and a starting caliber Point Guard in Kris Dunn for a third tier star player is a major get. Zack Lavine is probably Devin Booker somewhere else. Mom and Pop Reinsdorf are Wyle E Coyote using cheap ass AK-ME products.

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Author:	conns7901 [ Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: bulls@Heat Final play-in
The Missing Link wrote: competent. That's why yelling "blow it up" and "rebuild" makes little sense. You can't do anything until JR no longer owns the team .[/quote] Fixed.