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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:01 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The position battles are not on him that's on the coach. Brand was a solid pick I don't think he made a mistake there. Arrest was obviously a solid pick. Maybe best value in the draft in retrospect. He traded for Chandler he didn't draft him so I'm not sure if he actually had a shot at Gasol. The fizer pick made no sense at the time since we already had brand. I read somewhere that he picked fizer after a draft day deal fell through but don't remember. But again it's not like he missed out on a star in that draft. The classes were terrible.

Crawford had a great career. Definitely worthy of the pick.


Nah. You're presuming things without the benefits of facts. Krause specifically said that Jay Williams and Crawford would battle for spot when Williams was drafted.

Crawford also didn't have a great career either. He was a career backup mostly known for losing during the first half of his career. The Bulls got better the second they replaced him with Ben Gordon.

He called Chandler the next Garnett. Those were his words. He drafted 2 "Centers of the future" in the same draft. That's terrible.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:02 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Krause = one great draft pick (or trade for the pick) and one great FA signing (Rodman).

Replaced Jordan with Pete Myers.

Scouted Kenny Williams in baseball. Enough said!


He didn't sign Rodman he traded for him. He drafted Armstrong, Grant, Pippen, Williams, and Kukoc. All instrumental pieces.


Will Perdue was also an instrumental pick. He help us get Rodman.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:03 pm 
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I believe the story was that Krause and Jordan were having an argument in which Krause declared "I discovered Earl Monroe," only for Michael to reply that Monroe was drafted second overall and if he hadn't discovered him, the next person would have.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:08 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I believe the story was that Krause and Jordan were having an argument in which Krause declared "I discovered Earl Monroe," only for Michael to reply that Monroe was drafted second overall and if he hadn't discovered him, the next person would have.

Plus, if a guy has a nickname based on his exploits before you met him, you didn't discover jack.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:09 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:

Read the sequence again. You seem to have a comprehension problem here.


You said he inherited the goat. Jordan wasn't goat at the time.

Yes he was. We didn’t know it at the time but he did inherit the GOAT. And even if you want to nitpick semantics he still inherited Michael Jordan who was instantly one of the most talented players in the league when Krause inherited him.


You've got to build a team around him. Why did Garnett leave Minny? Why did Ray Allen agree to be traded from Seattle? They needed better teammates to win. Krause provided that to Jordan. Good GM.


Everyone needs better teammates to win but Krause only ever provided one that made a difference. Two if you count Rodman. There wasn't much orchestrating required for that. None of the other pieces were instrumental.


All of them were instrumental. Kukoc saved the bulls in 1998 when Pippen got hurt in the beginning. Without Kukoc they don't win 5 and 6. He was the x factor.


These were some of his draft picks.

1st pick Charles Oakley. Could have had Karl Malone.
2nd Pick Brad Sellers. Was supposed to take Dawkins but that was too much like right I guess. Brad Sellers was the laughingstock of the league.

3rd pick Pippen/Grant
88 Will Perdue. Bust
3 picks in 89 1st round
Lottery Pick Stacey King 6th overall Flop
B.J. Armstrong ok player
Jeff Sanders. Bust
90-98 not one player of note from any of those drafts besides Kukoc.


Not one free agent signing of notes during any of the championship years.

Ron Harper was vastly overpaid by the time Krause signed him to play for the Bulls. He was a shell of his former self.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:16 pm 
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tommy wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Those drafts sucked but Chandler was actually a good player. Has had a great career.


Nah he screwed some of those up. Could have had Gasol. The Twin Tower thing could have worked but there was only one problem. Both Curry and Chandler were Centers. He thought Chandler was going to be this versatile PF with Small Forward skills. Compared him to Garnett. In hindsight that's a terrible assessment.

Pair him with Gasol and he would have had something.

His drafts were terrible and as stated he wasn't the guy to discover Pippen either. He gets credit for it but that wasn't his work.


Maybe I'm misrembering things, but wasn't there word about him "finding" Pearl Monroe back in the day?


I think Chet Walker was a Krause discovery as I recall. Could be wrong though

Wasn't Walker a highly-regarded player on a high-profile team at Bradley?


Yeah and Krause attended Bradley.. He didn't discover him he just convinced the Bulls to trade for him.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:17 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Not one free agent signing of notes during any of the championship years.


Well this certainly makes me rethink his legacy.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:22 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Not one free agent signing of notes during any of the championship years.


Well this certainly makes me rethink his legacy.


Well if he wasn't really drafting and he wasn't signing free agents what exactly was he doing to surround him with all of this talent?

Who were these instrumental pieces?

I just ran his record down. Again they won with Krause and not because of him.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:41 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Those drafts sucked but Chandler was actually a good player. Has had a great career.


Nah he screwed some of those up. Could have had Gasol. The Twin Tower thing could have worked but there was only one problem. Both Curry and Chandler were Centers. He thought Chandler was going to be this versatile PF with Small Forward skills. Compared him to Garnett. In hindsight that's a terrible assessment.

Pair him with Gasol and he would have had something.

His drafts were terrible and as stated he wasn't the guy to discover Pippen either. He gets credit for it but that wasn't his work.


Maybe I'm misrembering things, but wasn't there word about him "finding" Pearl Monroe back in the day?


Yes.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:54 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Krause = one great draft pick (or trade for the pick) and one great FA signing (Rodman).

Replaced Jordan with Pete Myers.

Scouted Kenny Williams in baseball. Enough said!


He didn't sign Rodman he traded for him. He drafted Armstrong, Grant, Pippen, Williams, and Kukoc. All instrumental pieces.


Drafted Oakley, traded him for Cartwright
Drafted Perdue, traded him for Rodman
Drafted King, traded him for Longley

Scott Williams was an UDFA.
Signed Paxson as a FA.

He did a great job surrounding Jordan with the type of players that would compliment him. Above-average GM.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:56 pm 
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A decent GM who could not handle being in the background.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:58 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
But again it's not like he missed out on a star in that draft. The classes were terrible.
.


These are the some of the names from that rather "terrible" 2001 draft.
Paul Gasol
Joe Johnson
Tony Parker
Gerald Wallace
Gilbert Arenas
Zach Randolph
Richard Jefferson
Jason Richardson
https://www.basketball-reference.com/dr ... _2001.html

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:02 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Those drafts sucked but Chandler was actually a good player. Has had a great career.



I'm going to say he has the highest adjusted shooting percentage in the history of the league. If not, he's close.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:03 pm 
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The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:03 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Krause = one great draft pick (or trade for the pick) and one great FA signing (Rodman).

Replaced Jordan with Pete Myers.

Scouted Kenny Williams in baseball. Enough said!


He didn't sign Rodman he traded for him. He drafted Armstrong, Grant, Pippen, Williams, and Kukoc. All instrumental pieces.


Drafted Oakley, traded him for Cartwright
Drafted Perdue, traded him for Rodman
Drafted King, traded him for Longley

Scott Williams was an UDFA.
Signed Paxson as a FA.

He did a great job surrounding Jordan with the type of players that would compliment him. Above-average GM.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:04 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:05 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Those drafts sucked but Chandler was actually a good player. Has had a great career.



I'm going to say he has the highest adjusted shooting percentage in the history of the league. If not, he's close.


All-star, DPOY, All-NBA, All-NBA defensive team, starting center on a NBA champ.

Damn good career.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:06 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Those drafts sucked but Chandler was actually a good player. Has had a great career.



I'm going to say he has the highest adjusted shooting percentage in the history of the league. If not, he's close.


Chris Paul saved his career. While with the Bulls he was considered a bust.

Much better players were drafted after him

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:09 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both

2001 sucked dick too.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:09 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:

Read the sequence again. You seem to have a comprehension problem here.


You said he inherited the goat. Jordan wasn't goat at the time.

Yes he was. We didn’t know it at the time but he did inherit the GOAT. And even if you want to nitpick semantics he still inherited Michael Jordan who was instantly one of the most talented players in the league when Krause inherited him.


You've got to build a team around him. Why did Garnett leave Minny? Why did Ray Allen agree to be traded from Seattle? They needed better teammates to win. Krause provided that to Jordan. Good GM.

I’ve already given him credit for the Pippen move and a couple others. He was an ok GM. His failure stands out as much as his success and that’s completely on him.


Well I assume you're talking about post-Jordan. He did the right thing by accumulating as many draft picks as possible. Who knew it would coincide with the worst draft pools in recent history. 2000 - 2002 were pretty bad and that's when we had about maybe 6 lottery picks or so. The best rookie from that class was gasol I think and I'm not sure if we had a shot at him. I can't remember another star from those classes. Might be missing someone obvious.

Any dipshit can assemble a terrible roster and get high picks. We’ve had this discussion before and I’m never going to take you seriously whenever you present that as a skill. It’s particularly laughable when you’re defending breaking up the best dynasty in modern history to do it.

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Last edited by FavreFan on Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:09 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Those drafts sucked but Chandler was actually a good player. Has had a great career.



I'm going to say he has the highest adjusted shooting percentage in the history of the league. If not, he's close.


All-star, DPOY, All-NBA, All-NBA defensive team, starting center on a NBA champ.

Damn good career.


Took him about 10 years to attain any of that.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:10 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both


2001 was better but not a ton. Taking two centers was dumb at the time. I cant really fault him about Randolph and Parker. Randolph went 19 and Parker went 28.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:11 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both

2001 sucked dick too.


Have at it.

These are the some of the names from that rather "terrible" 2001 draft.
Paul Gasol
Joe Johnson
Tony Parker
Gerald Wallace
Gilbert Arenas
Zach Randolph
Richard Jefferson
Jason Richardson

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:12 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both

2001 sucked dick too.


Have at it.

These are the some of the names from that rather "terrible" 2001 draft.
Paul Gasol
Joe Johnson
Tony Parker
Gerald Wallace
Gilbert Arenas
Zach Randolph
Richard Jefferson
Jason Richardson


Not a single superstar (#1 on a 'ship winning team) on that list.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:16 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both


2001 was better but not a ton. Taking two centers was dumb at the time. I cant really fault him about Randolph and Parker. Randolph went 19 and Parker went 28.


Here is the thing. He constantly missed on players and a number of his guys were either flops or played better with other teams.

Joe Johnson
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Zeno Were all studs.
So was Arenas pre injury.
Richard Jefferson's career was better than Chandler's.

So was Battier's arguably.

Why didn't Krause ever ID these types of guys?

People keep referencing Pippen. Krause didn't ID Pippen. No one in the Bulls Organization did.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The 2000 draft was a pile of shit for the most part. Only three players ever made an All-Star team.


The one with Chandler and Curry wasn't. He had the 2nd and 4th pick and missed on both

2001 sucked dick too.


Have at it.

These are the some of the names from that rather "terrible" 2001 draft.
Paul Gasol
Joe Johnson
Tony Parker
Gerald Wallace
Gilbert Arenas
Zach Randolph
Richard Jefferson
Jason Richardson


Not a single superstar (#1 on a 'ship winning team) on that list.


You ever heard of Pau Gasol? Tony Parker has what 4 rings?

Chandler was a default All Star pick. Think he was a replacement for an injured guy.

His career can't touch the careers of the guys I id'd as studs. They led teams to the playoffs and Gasol has 2 rings and was a deciding factor in both. Single biggest reason the Lakers returned to championship status

Chandler was never anything more than a complimentary piece on any team that he has ever played on.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Hearing that Tim Floyd and Uncle Jerry had to convince him not to replace Phil during the 1996 NBA Finals is hilarious.

Where did this come from? Never heard that

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:26 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hearing that Tim Floyd and Uncle Jerry had to convince him not to replace Phil during the 1996 NBA Finals is hilarious.

Where did this come from? Never heard that


Floyd told the story on a Louisiana radio station today.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:30 pm 
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I still do not understand why Krause drafted Travis Knight in the first round then renounced the rights to him. Why didn't he take an overseas player?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:47 pm 
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Keep hearing about how Krause surrounded Jordan with players who helped Jordan win Championships. It was a running joke how overmatched that supporting cast was during the first 3 championships.

If you look at what the Lakers surrounded an aging Magic with, Portland with Drexler and Phoenix with Barkley, it was no contest.

Their supporting cast was much better than the Bulls.

The game against Phoenix was a perfect illustration. Team only scores 9 in the 4th Jordan has all 9 til Paxson hits the 3. Yeah Krause surrounded him with pieces alright.

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Last edited by long time guy on Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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