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Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
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Author:  IMU [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
LTG is okay giving Lavine a max contract because he is a "proven offense player" but Butler isn't worth a max contract because he is only one of the best two way players in the NBA?

No matter how bad Gar and Pax are, I'd still trust them with the franchise over LTG. Good lord.
Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I just don't get the discussion here. Wade chose to stay here. Why would he get a buyout?

Wade was a terrible signing and I don't know why anyone would want to root for him after what he did to the Bulls in the Lebron recruitment. Let him play it out here and be miserable and then hopefully we can ban him from the city of Chicago and neighboring counties.


I am also confused here.
Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I just don't get the discussion here. Wade chose to stay here. Why would he get a buyout?

Wade was a terrible signing and I don't know why anyone would want to root for him after what he did to the Bulls in the Lebron recruitment. Let him play it out here and be miserable and then hopefully we can ban him from the city of Chicago and neighboring counties.



No one cares about Wade or his decision to opt in. He will ride the year out and move on if they don't trade him first. Who cares if he is bought out? I don't.

I'm interested in the rebuild.
If no one cares why does this thread exist?


To provide another reason to talk Jimmy Butler.


I am starting to get it.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
IMU wrote:
LTG is okay giving Lavine a max contract because he is a "proven offense player" but Butler isn't worth a max contract because he is only one of the best two way players in the NBA?

No matter how bad Gar and Pax are, I'd still trust them with the franchise over LTG. Good lord.



Basketball waters always are muddied up whenever you enter the picture :lol:

Lavine will probably command 18-20 mil a year. That is not max in today's NBA. Butler was in line for a 40 million dollar deal in 2 years. You do the math.

There are also 2 other players in this trade. The Bulls acquired 3 potential starters for a guy that may be equivalent to a shot fighter in 2 years.

Dunn didn't show much last year other than he can play defense. I have questions about him but I did like him coming out of college and looked good in Vegas last year. It may be too early to write him off just like it was too early for you and others now on Butler's bandwagon to do a few years ago.
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
Subjective? I think not.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-p ... ts-scores/

Avg about 15 points less without Rondo. Failed to crack the 100 point mark in 4 games after doing it during the first 2.

I love how playoff basketball somehow becomes irrelevant too.


The way you prattle on about these 2 finals games you'd think they were two of the greatest performances by a point guard in the history of the league. The Bulls were still a thoroughly mediocre team when Wade went down. They went 7-5 and had terrible losses while fighting for the playoffs against the Knicks and Nets and even almost blew it against the Sixers. This is despite the fact that Fred and Rajon were apparently ready to show the world what they were made of. I'm sure all the losses can be blamed on Jimmy and all the wins were the result of Hoiberg and Rondo though. The Celtics would've likely come back regardless because the Bulls were a mediocre team quite capable of losing 4 in a row after winning 2; they demonstrated that all season long.

Likewise Rondo playing with the second unit should, if anything, improve his stats according to your own logic. After all, the second unit lacks the obvious offensive albatrosses like Wade and Butler, so we really should've expected him to flourish and to see Hoiball at its very best. Unfortunately the on/off-stats for the season (a number of games far larger than 2) indicated that Rondo was not a positive offensive contributor and Butler was.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Subjective? I think not.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-p ... ts-scores/

Avg about 15 points less without Rondo. Failed to crack the 100 point mark in 4 games after doing it during the first 2.

I love how playoff basketball somehow becomes irrelevant too.


The way you prattle on about these 2 finals games you'd think they were two of the greatest performances by a point guard in the history of the league. The Bulls were still a thoroughly mediocre team when Wade went down. They went 7-5 and had terrible losses while fighting for the playoffs against the Knicks and Nets and even almost blew it against the Sixers. This is despite the fact that Fred and Rajon were apparently ready to show the world what they were made of. I'm sure all the losses can be blamed on Jimmy and all the wins were the result of Hoiberg and Rondo though. The Celtics would've likely come back regardless because the Bulls were a mediocre team quite capable of losing 4 in a row after winning 2; they demonstrated that all season long.

Likewise Rondo playing with the second unit should, if anything, improve his stats according to your own logic. After all, the second unit lacks the obvious offensive albatrosses like Wade and Butler, so we really should've expected him to flourish and to see Hoiball at its very best. Unfortunately the on/off-stats for the season (a number of games far larger than 2) indicated that Rondo was not a positive offensive contributor and Butler was.



Oh yee of much analytical prowess how do you explain the fact that they couldn't crack the 100 mark in any of the 4 games without Rondo? Avg 15 points a game less without him? How do explain that?

I'm not suggesting that they were all about Rondo. You seem to have no problem with attributing 41 wins to Butler though. After all Hoiberg stinks as a coach. How could the Bulls ever win a game given his ineptness as a coach?. Rondo is a cancerous bum on his last NBA legs and I'm sure you are not a fan of Wade at this stage.

Bulls wins are attributable to the greatness that is Butler. That about right?
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Subjective? I think not.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-p ... ts-scores/

Avg about 15 points less without Rondo. Failed to crack the 100 point mark in 4 games after doing it during the first 2.

I love how playoff basketball somehow becomes irrelevant too.


The way you prattle on about these 2 finals games you'd think they were two of the greatest performances by a point guard in the history of the league. The Bulls were still a thoroughly mediocre team when Wade went down. They went 7-5 and had terrible losses while fighting for the playoffs against the Knicks and Nets and even almost blew it against the Sixers. This is despite the fact that Fred and Rajon were apparently ready to show the world what they were made of. I'm sure all the losses can be blamed on Jimmy and all the wins were the result of Hoiberg and Rondo though. The Celtics would've likely come back regardless because the Bulls were a mediocre team quite capable of losing 4 in a row after winning 2; they demonstrated that all season long.

Likewise Rondo playing with the second unit should, if anything, improve his stats according to your own logic. After all, the second unit lacks the obvious offensive albatrosses like Wade and Butler, so we really should've expected him to flourish and to see Hoiball at its very best. Unfortunately the on/off-stats for the season (a number of games far larger than 2) indicated that Rondo was not a positive offensive contriYbutor and Butler was.



Oh yee of much analytical prowess how do you explain the fact that they couldn't crack the 100 mark in any of the 4 games without Rondo? Avg 15 points a game less without him? How do explain that?

I'm not suggesting that they were all about Rondo. You seem to have no problem with attributing 41 wins to Butler though. After all Hoiberg stinks as a coach. How could the Bulls ever win a game given his ineptness as a coach?. Rondo is a cancerous bum on his last NBA legs and I'm sure you are not a fan of Wade at this stage.

Bulls wins are attributable to the greatness that is Butler. That about right?

I'd say they're a helluva lot more attributable to Butler than Hoiberg. I can actually tell you things Butler does well (as opposed to vague nonsense like "tries his best" which is about what your defense of Hoiberg amounts to) and can point to numbers that show how much more successful the Bulls were with him and how unsuccessful they were without him. Last year's Bulls team is bottom 5 or close to it without Butler playing.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I just don't get the discussion here. Wade chose to stay here. Why would he get a buyout?


Because he's still a good player and the Bulls don't want to win any more games than they have to next season.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
So how much is Wade going to give back to the Bulls?
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
Nas wrote:
So a 19 game improvement because of 1 player?

Yes. That's a reasonable expectation of Jimmy and the T Wolves next season.
Author:  pittmike [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I just don't get the discussion here. Wade chose to stay here. Why would he get a buyout?


Because he's still a good player and the Bulls don't want to win any more games than they have to next season.


I realize the answer is money Wade should have just opted out.
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I just don't get the discussion here. Wade chose to stay here. Why would he get a buyout?

Wade was a terrible signing and I don't know why anyone would want to root for him after what he did to the Bulls in the Lebron recruitment. Let him play it out here and be miserable and then hopefully we can ban him from the city of Chicago and neighboring counties.


I am also confused here.


I cannot figure out the entire valuation system in the NBA. Teams seem to knowingly hand out bad contracts simply because they have money. Other teams seem to happily take on a bad contract. Good players never seem to be traded for value but if those same players were in the free agent market they would create a feeding frenzy. It's a bizarre market of perceived value.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
Teams don't take on bad contracts unless they are getting other assets as well. For example, it was worth it for the Nets to take on the Mozgov contract because they won't be competing in the next couple years regardless, and it was their only way to get a lottery player with potential since they gave away all their picks to Boston.

Free agency and four year contracts severely weaken the leverage a team trading away a good player has.

I have no explanation for the knowingly handing out bad contracts thing. Happens all the time in the NBA and I'm still not quite sure why. Last summer, everyone was making fun of the Deng, Mozgov, Mahinmi, etc. contracts the second they were signed. The cap increasing significantly is a very poor justification. Really puts in perspective how awesome it was for Golden State to get Steph on that extension.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
FavreFan wrote:
Teams don't take on bad contracts unless they are getting other assets as well. For example, it was worth it for the Nets to take on the Mozgov contract because they won't be competing in the next couple years regardless, and it was their only way to get a lottery player with potential since they gave away all their picks to Boston.

Free agency and four year contracts severely weaken the leverage a team trading away a good player has.

I have no explanation for the knowingly handing out bad contracts thing. Happens all the time in the NBA and I'm still not quite sure why. Last summer, everyone was making fun of the Deng, Mozgov, Mahinmi, etc. contracts the second they were signed. The cap increasing significantly is a very poor justification. Really puts in perspective how awesome it was for Golden State to get Steph on that extension.


Cap minimum. You have to give the money to someone. Something funny happened a few years ago. One player can t remember the player was forced to take more from a team simply because they had to get to the minimum. Forget the player. He agreed to take less then they tore it up and in essence forced him to take more money.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Teams don't take on bad contracts unless they are getting other assets as well. For example, it was worth it for the Nets to take on the Mozgov contract because they won't be competing in the next couple years regardless, and it was their only way to get a lottery player with potential since they gave away all their picks to Boston.

Free agency and four year contracts severely weaken the leverage a team trading away a good player has.

I have no explanation for the knowingly handing out bad contracts thing. Happens all the time in the NBA and I'm still not quite sure why. Last summer, everyone was making fun of the Deng, Mozgov, Mahinmi, etc. contracts the second they were signed. The cap increasing significantly is a very poor justification. Really puts in perspective how awesome it was for Golden State to get Steph on that extension.


Cap minimum. You have to give the money to someone. Something funny happened a few years ago. One player can t remember the player was forced to take more from a team simply because they had to get to the minimum. Forget the player. He agreed to take less then they tore it up and in essence forced him to take more money.

Right, but that doesn't explain the four year deals with bad contracts. Just give Mozgov a 1 year, 20 million deal if you need to. I'm sure he would take it. Also, iirc, the "penalty" for not reaching the minimum is pretty meaningless.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Teams don't take on bad contracts unless they are getting other assets as well. For example, it was worth it for the Nets to take on the Mozgov contract because they won't be competing in the next couple years regardless, and it was their only way to get a lottery player with potential since they gave away all their picks to Boston.

Free agency and four year contracts severely weaken the leverage a team trading away a good player has.

I have no explanation for the knowingly handing out bad contracts thing. Happens all the time in the NBA and I'm still not quite sure why. Last summer, everyone was making fun of the Deng, Mozgov, Mahinmi, etc. contracts the second they were signed. The cap increasing significantly is a very poor justification. Really puts in perspective how awesome it was for Golden State to get Steph on that extension.


Cap minimum. You have to give the money to someone. Something funny happened a few years ago. One player can t remember the player was forced to take more from a team simply because they had to get to the minimum. Forget the player. He agreed to take less then they tore it up and in essence forced him to take more money.

Right, but that doesn't explain the four year deals with bad contracts. Just give Mozgov a 1 year, 20 million deal if you need to. I'm sure he would take it. Also, iirc, the "penalty" for not reaching the minimum is pretty meaningless.



Noah shouldn't have received the contract he got either.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Subjective? I think not.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-p ... ts-scores/

Avg about 15 points less without Rondo. Failed to crack the 100 point mark in 4 games after doing it during the first 2.

I love how playoff basketball somehow becomes irrelevant too.


The way you prattle on about these 2 finals games you'd think they were two of the greatest performances by a point guard in the history of the league. The Bulls were still a thoroughly mediocre team when Wade went down. They went 7-5 and had terrible losses while fighting for the playoffs against the Knicks and Nets and even almost blew it against the Sixers. This is despite the fact that Fred and Rajon were apparently ready to show the world what they were made of. I'm sure all the losses can be blamed on Jimmy and all the wins were the result of Hoiberg and Rondo though. The Celtics would've likely come back regardless because the Bulls were a mediocre team quite capable of losing 4 in a row after winning 2; they demonstrated that all season long.

Likewise Rondo playing with the second unit should, if anything, improve his stats according to your own logic. After all, the second unit lacks the obvious offensive albatrosses like Wade and Butler, so we really should've expected him to flourish and to see Hoiball at its very best. Unfortunately the on/off-stats for the season (a number of games far larger than 2) indicated that Rondo was not a positive offensive contriYbutor and Butler was.



Oh yee of much analytical prowess how do you explain the fact that they couldn't crack the 100 mark in any of the 4 games without Rondo? Avg 15 points a game less without him? How do explain that?

I'm not suggesting that they were all about Rondo. You seem to have no problem with attributing 41 wins to Butler though. After all Hoiberg stinks as a coach. How could the Bulls ever win a game given his ineptness as a coach?. Rondo is a cancerous bum on his last NBA legs and I'm sure you are not a fan of Wade at this stage.

Bulls wins are attributable to the greatness that is Butler. That about right?

I'd say they're a helluva lot more attributable to Butler than Hoiberg. I can actually tell you things Butler does well (as opposed to vague nonsense like "tries his best" which is about what your defense of Hoiberg amounts to) and can point to numbers that show how much more successful the Bulls were with him and how unsuccessful they were without him. Last year's Bulls team is bottom 5 or close to it without Butler playing.



If Butler doesn't play then they'd have another good player in that slot. His greatness wasn't enough to win 1 game in four against a beatable Boston team. If they keep Rondo and Wade this team wins 30-35 games barring injury to either.
Author:  Caller Bob [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Teams don't take on bad contracts unless they are getting other assets as well. For example, it was worth it for the Nets to take on the Mozgov contract because they won't be competing in the next couple years regardless, and it was their only way to get a lottery player with potential since they gave away all their picks to Boston.

Free agency and four year contracts severely weaken the leverage a team trading away a good player has.

I have no explanation for the knowingly handing out bad contracts thing. Happens all the time in the NBA and I'm still not quite sure why. Last summer, everyone was making fun of the Deng, Mozgov, Mahinmi, etc. contracts the second they were signed. The cap increasing significantly is a very poor justification. Really puts in perspective how awesome it was for Golden State to get Steph on that extension.


Cap minimum. You have to give the money to someone. Something funny happened a few years ago. One player can t remember the player was forced to take more from a team simply because they had to get to the minimum. Forget the player. He agreed to take less then they tore it up and in essence forced him to take more money.

Right, but that doesn't explain the four year deals with bad contracts. Just give Mozgov a 1 year, 20 million deal if you need to. I'm sure he would take it. Also, iirc, the "penalty" for not reaching the minimum is pretty meaningless.



Noah shouldn't have received the contract he got either.

Right. There were over a dozen of these awful contracts given out last year. Made zero sense at the time and even less sense now.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.

The Bulls are gonna suck with or without Wade and Rondo. I'm assuming Rondo's buyout is just a formality at this point. Wade's is trickier.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.

The Bulls are gonna suck with or without Wade and Rondo. I'm assuming Rondo's buyout is just a formality at this point. Wade's is trickier.



The Bulls are aiming to be a playoff team in 18-19. Anything they do this year is immaterial.

The same group said they sucked this time last year and were proven wrong. When they made the playoffs which few predicted the goal post was moved to include seeding and weak Eastern Conf.
Author:  IMU [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.

The Bulls are gonna suck with or without Wade and Rondo. I'm assuming Rondo's buyout is just a formality at this point. Wade's is trickier.



The Bulls are aiming to be a playoff team in 18-19. Anything they do this year is immaterial.

No. This is going to be 2-3 years of tanking.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.

The Bulls are gonna suck with or without Wade and Rondo. I'm assuming Rondo's buyout is just a formality at this point. Wade's is trickier.



The Bulls are aiming to be a playoff team in 18-19.

That's ambitious, considering they need to improve at the Head Coach, PG, SG, SF, PF, C, and bench spots first and only have a year to do it.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.

The Bulls are gonna suck with or without Wade and Rondo. I'm assuming Rondo's buyout is just a formality at this point. Wade's is trickier.



The Bulls are aiming to be a playoff team in 18-19.

That's ambitious, considering they need to improve at the Head Coach, PG, SG, SF, PF, C, and bench spots first and only have a year to do it.


So you're another of the all about Butler crowd. All wins due to Butler. Cool.
Author:  denisdman [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
The Bulls are aiming to be a playoff team in 18-19.


long time guy wrote:
I make good points.


:scratch:
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I admire LTG's tenacity. No matter how terrible his argument, he will never give up. He wears out his competition.


I make good points. We will see what they do this year. The drop off will not be as precipitous as it appears now. If they can Rondo and Wade and go full fledged tank then it will be.

The Bulls are gonna suck with or without Wade and Rondo. I'm assuming Rondo's buyout is just a formality at this point. Wade's is trickier.



The Bulls are aiming to be a playoff team in 18-19.

That's ambitious, considering they need to improve at the Head Coach, PG, SG, SF, PF, C, and bench spots first and only have a year to do it.


So you're another of the all about Butler crowd. All wins due to Butler. Cool.

Not all wins. About half of them though. You'll see this next year when adding Butler improves Minny by about 20 wins.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
They won't get there
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
long time guy wrote:
They won't get there

How many games do you think the Wolves win next season?

I don't see how they are any worse than 46-36. We've seen countless examples of guys like Butler adding 15-20 wins when going to a new team. If you look at the 2010 Cavs and 2011 Cavs LeBron was worth about 40 wins.
Author:  long time guy [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwyane Wade wants a buyout
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
They won't get there

How many games do you think the Wolves win next season?

I don't see how they are any worse than 46-36. We've seen countless examples of guys like Butler adding 15-20 wins when going to a new team. If you look at the 2010 Cavs and 2011 Cavs LeBron was worth about 40 wins.


I think their ceiling is 44-38. Real top 5 kind of guys make that difference. Paul with the Clippers. Melo as a rookie. Not Butler. Thibs will eke out a few more,regular season wins by burning out the starters in some games but I still think 44 will be the max for them. Lavine was a 19 point scorer for them. Butler isn't going to score much more than that.

He will help tremendously on defense. They now have 2 good defenders in their starting lineup.
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