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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:22 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
I was with you until you said Valentine is a player. Dude is garbage. He and Portis are busts.


Valentine makes shots. It is hard to call a guy drafted 22nd a bust.

MCW is garbage.

why does the fact that he was drafted 22nd matter? People that are drafted in the top spot are busts. You can be a bust from any spot in the draft.

I dont think one can tell yet if Valentine is a bust or a player. He needs more time.


I don't think you know the definition of "bust"

define draft bust - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?ei=5lHgWI ... jl7VOZNUyc

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:26 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
I was with you until you said Valentine is a player. Dude is garbage. He and Portis are busts.


Valentine makes shots. It is hard to call a guy drafted 22nd a bust.

MCW is garbage.

why does the fact that he was drafted 22nd matter? People that are drafted in the top spot are busts. You can be a bust from any spot in the draft.

I dont think one can tell yet if Valentine is a bust or a player. He needs more time.


I don't think you know the definition of "bust"

define draft bust - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?ei=5lHgWI ... jl7VOZNUyc


I would say that anyone taken in the first round would be in consideration for being a bust.

If not where is the cut off for when a player is a bust or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:31 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
I was with you until you said Valentine is a player. Dude is garbage. He and Portis are busts.


Valentine makes shots. It is hard to call a guy drafted 22nd a bust.

I'd say typically top 10.

MCW is garbage.

why does the fact that he was drafted 22nd matter? People that are drafted in the top spot are busts. You can be a bust from any spot in the draft.

I dont think one can tell yet if Valentine is a bust or a player. He needs more time.


I don't think you know the definition of "bust"

define draft bust - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?ei=5lHgWI ... jl7VOZNUyc


I would say that anyone taken in the first round would be in consideration for being a bust.

If not where is the cut off for when a player is a bust or not?


Typically top 10

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:50 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
I was with you until you said Valentine is a player. Dude is garbage. He and Portis are busts.


Valentine makes shots. It is hard to call a guy drafted 22nd a bust.

MCW is garbage.

why does the fact that he was drafted 22nd matter? People that are drafted in the top spot are busts. You can be a bust from any spot in the draft.

I dont think one can tell yet if Valentine is a bust or a player. He needs more time.


I don't think you know the definition of "bust"

define draft bust - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?ei=5lHgWI ... jl7VOZNUyc


I would say that anyone taken in the first round would be in consideration for being a bust.

If not where is the cut off for when a player is a bust or not?

Lottery.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:33 am 
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Wow some of you have low standards from your front office.

If your 22 overall pick is out of the league in 5 years, I consider it a bust.

And we're trying to claim that there is an official definition of an NBA draft bust? Bitch pleeeeeaaaasse.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:55 am 
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Valentine will have a 10+ year career.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:22 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Wow some of you have low standards from your front office.

If your 22 overall pick is out of the league in 5 years, I consider it a bust.

And we're trying to claim that there is an official definition of an NBA draft bust? Bitch pleeeeeaaaasse.


There is a definition. I just provided it

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:22 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Wow some of you have low standards from your front office.

If your 22 overall pick is out of the league in 5 years, I consider it a bust.

And we're trying to claim that there is an official definition of an NBA draft bust? Bitch pleeeeeaaaasse.


There is a definition. I just provided it

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:24 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
Wow some of you have low standards from your front office.

If your 22 overall pick is out of the league in 5 years, I consider it a bust.

And we're trying to claim that there is an official definition of an NBA draft bust? Bitch pleeeeeaaaasse.


There is a definition. I just provided it

Who came up with that definition?

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:30 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Wow some of you have low standards from your front office.

If your 22 overall pick is out of the league in 5 years, I consider it a bust.

And we're trying to claim that there is an official definition of an NBA draft bust? Bitch pleeeeeaaaasse.

Valentine was the 14th pick.

Ltg is correct tho that a 22nd overall pick isn't really a bust. Those guys are rarely good.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Even better definition and explanation of the term

Celtics Life: What really is a "draft bust"?
http://www.celticslife.com/2012/06/what ... t.html?m=1

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:33 pm 
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So you are telling me that if Jimmy Butler would have been out of the league in a couple years that Bulls fans would not have considered him as a bust?

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:37 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So you are telling me that if Jimmy Butler would have been out of the league in a couple years that Bulls fans would not have considered him as a bust?


I would not have thought of him as a bust. I didn't think of Teague as a bust either.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:39 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So you are telling me that if Jimmy Butler would have been out of the league in a couple years that Bulls fans would not have considered him as a bust?

Yes, I believe that is what we are telling you.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:42 pm 
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There were no expectations on Jimmy Butler coming out of college. Bust term is reserved for guys that have big expectations placed upon them

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:50 pm 
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That type of thought allows for a shitty organization like the Bulls to not be held accountable.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:52 pm 
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IMU wrote:
That type of thought allows for a shitty organization like the Bulls to not be held accountable.

No, it's really just common sense. A bust is someone who performs significantly below expectations. That is literally not possible when there are no expectations. You're using a definition for bust that seems to be "someone who is not good".

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:59 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
That type of thought allows for a shitty organization like the Bulls to not be held accountable.

No, it's really just common sense. A bust is someone who performs significantly below expectations. That is literally not possible when there are no expectations. You're using a definition for bust that seems to be "someone who is not good".

I have expectations for all draft picks. Those expectations do scale depending on where someone is picked. If you have no expectations for first round draft picks outside of the lottery, what the fuck are you doing as an organization? And how could you ever support not tanking unless you're a championship contender?

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:09 pm 
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What kind of league is this where anyone drafted in the second half of the first round has no expectations for success?

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Don't mind them. They've put a lot on Portis and Valentine, between the two, and now need to cover a few angles so it does not reflect poorly upon them.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:51 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Don't mind them. They've put a lot on Portis and Valentine, between the two, and now need to cover a few angles so it does not reflect poorly upon them.

:lol:

It has nothing to do with your expectations, or mine, or the Bulls. It's just how it is. This is where not following the nba closely hurts you in these arguments. Let's look at the guys picked 22nd overall since 2006.

2016 - Malachi Richardson
2015 - Bobby Portis
2014 - Jordan Adams
2013 - Mason Plumlee
2012 - Fab Melo
2011 - Kenneth Faried
2010 - Elliot Williams
2009 - Víctor Claver
2008 - Courtney Lee
2007 - Jared Dudley
2006 - Marcus Williams

So Faried is definitely better than Portis, and probably better than Portis ever will be. Plumlee is slightly better than Portis, but I think Portis will be a better player than him in the future. Courtney Lee had an ok career.

Portis is probably the 3rd or 4th best player drafted in that spot over the last 11 years. You need to recalibrate your idea of what a bust is at that spot. It's fair to call Fab Melo a bust I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
Don't mind them. They've put a lot on Portis and Valentine, between the two, and now need to cover a few angles so it does not reflect poorly upon them.

:lol:

It has nothing to do with your expectations, or mine, or the Bulls. It's just how it is. This is where not following the nba closely hurts you in these arguments. Let's look at the guys picked 22nd overall since 2006.

2016 - Malachi Richardson
2015 - Bobby Portis
2014 - Jordan Adams
2013 - Mason Plumlee
2012 - Fab Melo
2011 - Kenneth Faried
2010 - Elliot Williams
2009 - Víctor Claver
2008 - Courtney Lee
2007 - Jared Dudley
2006 - Marcus Williams

So Faried is definitely better than Portis, and probably better than Portis ever will be. Plumlee is slightly better than Portis, but I think Portis will be a better player than him in the future. Courtney Lee had an ok career.

Portis is probably the 3rd or 4th best player drafted in that spot over the last 11 years. You need to recalibrate your idea of what a bust is at that spot. It's fair to call Fab Melo a bust I guess.



Agreed. When you draft that low you're fortunate to find a rotation player. I won't bash any GM because he can't seem to find players at that spot.

Actually one of the best guys at drafting late was Zeek who most on here believe is one of the worst GMs in history. How is that for irony?

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:52 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
Don't mind them. They've put a lot on Portis and Valentine, between the two, and now need to cover a few angles so it does not reflect poorly upon them.

:lol:

It has nothing to do with your expectations, or mine, or the Bulls. It's just how it is. This is where not following the nba closely hurts you in these arguments. Let's look at the guys picked 22nd overall since 2006.

2016 - Malachi Richardson
2015 - Bobby Portis
2014 - Jordan Adams
2013 - Mason Plumlee
2012 - Fab Melo
2011 - Kenneth Faried
2010 - Elliot Williams
2009 - Víctor Claver
2008 - Courtney Lee
2007 - Jared Dudley
2006 - Marcus Williams

So Faried is definitely better than Portis, and probably better than Portis ever will be. Plumlee is slightly better than Portis, but I think Portis will be a better player than him in the future. Courtney Lee had an ok career.

Portis is probably the 3rd or 4th best player drafted in that spot over the last 11 years. You need to recalibrate your idea of what a bust is at that spot. It's fair to call Fab Melo a bust I guess.

I would take Fab Melo right now over Portis.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Paxson's strength has always been finding solid talent in the draft. It's when he's reached that it's blown up in his face.

In hindsight though, I wish he would've "reached" for Russell Westbrook.


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
I would take Fab Melo right now over Portis.

You'd personally take Dalibor Bagaric over Portis.


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Paxson's strength has always been finding solid talent in the draft. It's when he's reached that it's blown up in his face.

In hindsight though, I wish he would've "reached" for Russell Westbrook.



I remember reading the mock drafts that year and I was shocked when I saw Westbrook slotted top 5. He was considered to be the 4th best player on that team as I remember. Didn't have much of a game and was considered more defender than anything. Rose destroyed him in the tournament also.

NBA guys had him scouted correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
Don't mind them. They've put a lot on Portis and Valentine, between the two, and now need to cover a few angles so it does not reflect poorly upon them.

:lol:

It has nothing to do with your expectations, or mine, or the Bulls. It's just how it is. This is where not following the nba closely hurts you in these arguments. Let's look at the guys picked 22nd overall since 2006.

2016 - Malachi Richardson
2015 - Bobby Portis
2014 - Jordan Adams
2013 - Mason Plumlee
2012 - Fab Melo
2011 - Kenneth Faried
2010 - Elliot Williams
2009 - Víctor Claver
2008 - Courtney Lee
2007 - Jared Dudley
2006 - Marcus Williams

So Faried is definitely better than Portis, and probably better than Portis ever will be. Plumlee is slightly better than Portis, but I think Portis will be a better player than him in the future. Courtney Lee had an ok career.

Portis is probably the 3rd or 4th best player drafted in that spot over the last 11 years. You need to recalibrate your idea of what a bust is at that spot. It's fair to call Fab Melo a bust I guess.

I would take Fab Melo right now over Portis.


And Lance Stephenson

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:10 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Paxson's strength has always been finding solid talent in the draft. It's when he's reached that it's blown up in his face.

In hindsight though, I wish he would've "reached" for Russell Westbrook.



I remember reading the mock drafts that year and I was shocked when I saw Westbrook slotted top 5. He was considered to be the 4th best player on that team as I remember. Didn't have much of a game and was considered more defender than anything. Rose destroyed him in the tournament also.

NBA guys had him scouted correctly.

Seattle/OKC hit on what, 4 or 5 straight drafts?


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Paxson's strength has always been finding solid talent in the draft. It's when he's reached that it's blown up in his face.

In hindsight though, I wish he would've "reached" for Russell Westbrook.


Yep. Sam PrestI was doing the drafting and he was money in the bank at that time. Even Harden was sort of a reach at 3 but he had him pegged too. No one really saw Harden coming either. Ibaka was a helluva get too.

I remember reading the mock drafts that year and I was shocked when I saw Westbrook slotted top 5. He was considered to be the 4th best player on that team as I remember. Didn't have much of a game and was considered more defender than anything. Rose destroyed him in the tournament also.

NBA guys had him scouted correctly.

Seattle/OKC hit on what, 4 or 5 straight drafts?



Yep. Sam Presti was doing the drafting and he was money in the bank around that time. Harden was thought to be a reach at 3 but he had him scouted correctly. Ibaka was a helluva pick too. I don't bet against that guy when he locks in on a guy. Adams was a great pick at 12 too.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls Bets
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:59 pm 
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The Bulls ball movement has been so much better with Wade and Gibson gone. Butler is playing off the ball more and trusting the other players. They look better overall.

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