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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:58 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I doubt it. I mean last year we heard of an edict passed down from ownership to management about making the playoffs and all that dumb rah rah shit that's meant to boost short-term profits at the expense of long-term basketball success. Now they want to reverse that by trading their most popular player for what is presumably a bunch of picks and maybe a prospect? I'd be all for that but I just can't believe ownership would be down with the right basketball move.


Maybe Michael Reinsdorf has some balls.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:59 pm 
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I doubt it is going to happen, like vegan, but there does seem to be more and more smoke regarding him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Ron Wolfley wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I doubt it. I mean last year we heard of an edict passed down from ownership to management about making the playoffs and all that dumb rah rah shit that's meant to boost short-term profits at the expense of long-term basketball success. Now they want to reverse that by trading their most popular player for what is presumably a bunch of picks and maybe a prospect? I'd be all for that but I just can't believe ownership would be down with the right basketball move.


Maybe Michael Reinsdorf has some balls.


Nah. I think he wants another exhilarating playoff season where we lose in the second round this time. Progress! Watch. This Butler stuff will pass, Wade will re-sign, maybe Rondo is let go, and then we'll sign Deron Williams or some other big-name has-been to generate "excitement."

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:01 pm 
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This won't gut me as badly as Starlin but it'll hurt.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Seems like it's gonna happen. I would be surprised if they got a better offer than what Boston had on the table at the trade deadline tho. Maybe they can drive up the price with multiple suitors.

http://deadspin.com/run-dont-walk-to-trade-for-jimmy-butler-1796259960

Finally, someone who seems to realize it's not a great idea to trade Butler if you're the Bulls

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Seems like it's gonna happen. I would be surprised if they got a better offer than what Boston had on the table at the trade deadline tho. Maybe they can drive up the price with multiple suitors.

http://deadspin.com/run-dont-walk-to-trade-for-jimmy-butler-1796259960

Finally, someone who seems to realize it's not a great idea to trade Butler if you're the Bulls


Do you have a way out of basketball hell or are you content with mediocrity plus a couple of semi-thrilling first or second round playoff series from time to time?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:33 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Seems like it's gonna happen. I would be surprised if they got a better offer than what Boston had on the table at the trade deadline tho. Maybe they can drive up the price with multiple suitors.

http://deadspin.com/run-dont-walk-to-trade-for-jimmy-butler-1796259960

Finally, someone who seems to realize it's not a great idea to trade Butler if you're the Bulls


Do you have a way out of basketball hell or are you content with mediocrity plus a couple of semi-thrilling first or second round playoff series from time to time?

Yes. You sign one more great player in free agency and then you're a contender. You're already halfway there with Butler. If you trade him now you're likely gonna be a terrible team for years.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:36 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Seems like it's gonna happen. I would be surprised if they got a better offer than what Boston had on the table at the trade deadline tho. Maybe they can drive up the price with multiple suitors.

http://deadspin.com/run-dont-walk-to-trade-for-jimmy-butler-1796259960

Finally, someone who seems to realize it's not a great idea to trade Butler if you're the Bulls


Do you have a way out of basketball hell or are you content with mediocrity plus a couple of semi-thrilling first or second round playoff series from time to time?

Yes. You sign one more great player in free agency and then you're a contender. You're already halfway there with Butler. If you trade him now you're likely gonna be a terrible team for years.


There's no one out there currently who will make them a contender. Anthony Davis is that type of guy but by the time he'll be on the market Butler will be too old to rely on as a franchise player. Sell high.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:39 pm 
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There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:40 pm 
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The Market for Butler has never been as high as GarPax believed it should be. They aren't going to trade Butler. They always overvalue their own guys. That will be the excuse though something tells me that the cap friendly contract has something to do with it too.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:44 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available


That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Cleveland rumors are funny, they don't have any assets outside Irving and James and way over the luxury tax.. Drafting second to last... How could anybody report such nonsense.


Pax is scared to deal with Ainge, he knows Ainge is smarter and will fleece his dumb Ass.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:55 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available


That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

This post is just silly. It was a good article and shows just how in town stupid many people here are being about this

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:55 pm 
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312player wrote:
Cleveland rumors are funny, they don't have any assets outside Irving and James and way over the luxury tax.. Drafting second to last... How could anybody report such nonsense.

Pretty much all the reports say that for Clev to be involved they have to add a third team to the mix.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:58 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available


That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

This post is just silly. It was a good article and shows just how in town stupid many people here are being about this

:lol:

I made plenty of valid points in that post. Do you agree with the author about Butler being this sensational two-way player his whole career? What about my point on Butler needing a better supporting cast to really turbocharge this team's chance for post-season success, and how that help isn't coming before Butler is too old for it to matter? I'm not making this argument if Butler is 24 years old.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:59 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
312player wrote:
Cleveland rumors are funny, they don't have any assets outside Irving and James and way over the luxury tax.. Drafting second to last... How could anybody report such nonsense.

Pretty much all the reports say that for Clev to be involved they have to add a third team to the mix.




It's just as ridiculous, no team wants Cleveland's crap in exchange for good young players or high draft picks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:04 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available


That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

This post is just silly. It was a good article and shows just how in town stupid many people here are being about this

:lol:

I made plenty of valid points in that post. Do you agree with the author about Butler being this sensational two-way player his whole career? What about my point on Butler needing a better supporting cast to really turbocharge this team's chance for post-season success, and how that help isn't coming before Butler is too old for it to matter? I'm not making this argument if Butler is 24 years old.

The article never said he's always been a sensational two way player. And yes I agree with the author that he's always had two way talent, and that talent has shown itself the past several years and he's improved every single year.

His team will do better when he gets better teammates. That's a strong take, but I agree. For some reason you think the Bulls are incapable of improving their team.

He's 27. There's no reason to think he doesn't have 5-6 more great years. You're acting like he's 31. Considering he's still improving every year it's worth building a team around a guy like that unless someone blows you away with an offer. Several of you want to dump him for pretty much anything which would be a horrible idea.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Farvefan... You are fuckin dreaming if you think Butler is on this team when his contract is up, he doesn't like this inept organization and can't wait to get in a new team and win.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
For some reason you think the Bulls are incapable of improving their team.


They have not done very well at this thing over the last 15 years aside from a stroke of luck that landed them an MVP PG that couldint stay healthy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:08 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available


That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

This post is just silly. It was a good article and shows just how in town stupid many people here are being about this

:lol:

I made plenty of valid points in that post. Do you agree with the author about Butler being this sensational two-way player his whole career? What about my point on Butler needing a better supporting cast to really turbocharge this team's chance for post-season success, and how that help isn't coming before Butler is too old for it to matter? I'm not making this argument if Butler is 24 years old.

The article never said he's always been a sensational two way player. And yes I agree with the author that he's always had two way talent, and that talent has shown itself the past several years and he's improved every single year.

His team will do better when he gets better teammates. That's a strong take, but I agree. For some reason you think the Bulls are incapable of improving their team.

He's 27. There's no reason to think he doesn't have 5-6 more great years. You're acting like he's 31. Considering he's still improving every year it's worth building a team around a guy like that unless someone blows you away with an offer. Several of you want to dump him for pretty much anything which would be a horrible idea.


He'll be 28 when the season starts. There are obvious reasons for believing that GarPax cannot improve this team. Have you been watching the past two years? Who wants to dump him for anything? There should be high returns for a player of Butler's caliber - I'd take that over 45 win seasons and second round playoff exits, which is what you seem to be aiming for.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:11 pm 
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312player wrote:
Farvefan... You are fuckin dreaming if you think Butler is on this team when his contract is up, he doesn't like this inept organization and can't wait to get in a new team and win.

Most guys don't turn down an extra $50-70 million in the middle of their prime. He would stay. Especially if they were able to supplement him with any type of talent.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:15 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available


That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

This post is just silly. It was a good article and shows just how in town stupid many people here are being about this

:lol:

I made plenty of valid points in that post. Do you agree with the author about Butler being this sensational two-way player his whole career? What about my point on Butler needing a better supporting cast to really turbocharge this team's chance for post-season success, and how that help isn't coming before Butler is too old for it to matter? I'm not making this argument if Butler is 24 years old.

The article never said he's always been a sensational two way player. And yes I agree with the author that he's always had two way talent, and that talent has shown itself the past several years and he's improved every single year.

His team will do better when he gets better teammates. That's a strong take, but I agree. For some reason you think the Bulls are incapable of improving their team.

He's 27. There's no reason to think he doesn't have 5-6 more great years. You're acting like he's 31. Considering he's still improving every year it's worth building a team around a guy like that unless someone blows you away with an offer. Several of you want to dump him for pretty much anything which would be a horrible idea.


He'll be 28 when the season starts. There are obvious reasons for believing that GarPax cannot improve this team. Have you been watching the past two years? Who wants to dump him for anything? There should be high returns for a player of Butler's caliber - I'd take that over 45 win seasons and second round playoff exits, which is what you seem to be aiming for.

You keep misrepresenting what having Butler means, which is why you're wrong here. You think 45 win seasons and 1st round playoff exits are the ceiling of the team with him. We've seen with how inept the coaching and front office have been that that's actually close to the floor of a Butler led team. The ceiling is much higher if they are able to improve the team.

And that brings me to the second point. If you think the front office is incapable of improving the team then why do you give a shit if they get one or two extra lottery picks to attempt it? If you have zero confidence in them improving the team I'm not sure why you would even bother having this discussion in the first place. It wouldn't matter either way.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:27 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
You keep misrepresenting what having Butler means, which is why you're wrong here. You think 45 win seasons and 1st round playoff exits are the ceiling of the team with him. We've seen with how inept the coaching and front office have been that that's actually close to the floor of a Butler led team. The ceiling is much higher if they are able to improve the team.

And that brings me to the second point. If you think the front office is incapable of improving the team then why do you give a shit if they get one or two extra lottery picks to attempt it? If you have zero confidence in them improving the team I'm not sure why you would even bother having this discussion in the first place. It wouldn't matter either way.


Well the second point is what IMU has said in the past, and I agree with him. For me, if Gar leaves but Pax stays, then I can grudgingly say that he's somewhat capable of turning this around. But that's not a high bar since I'm comparing him to the dumpster fire that is Forman.

We somewhat agree on Butler's talent but differ on the extent to which the team can improve, and the timeframe for doing so. You keep vaguely stating that the Bulls' ceiling will be higher once they are "able to improve the team," but you haven't offered a path to doing that other than to say they should sign "one more great player" in free agency (by the way, I guess this is your strong take :D), even though that's not possible for the time being. Here's the thing: they're not going to turn it around this season. That's pretty much guaranteed. Then in 2018 you're going to rely on players like Wiggins and Cousins being on the market. Are they going to come here or stick with their teams? And are guys like that even good enough to get us past what is likely going to be Boston in the east, and GS in the west? Doubtful. And if you strike out, Butler is 29 with lots of mileage.

This is why I'm in the trade Butler crowd. It has nothing to do with Butler but more to do with a bleak forecast over the next 2-3 years that would end up diminishing the value of your best (and only) asset.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Rosenbloom sums it up nicely.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ro ... olumn.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:35 pm 
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What would be the lots of mileage on him? I would argue he would actually be a fairly young 29 given his time in the league and lack of deep playoff runs, etc.

But anyway, yeah I mean I don't know what other path you would suggest to improve the team beside free agency. You can hope for a miracle great pick in the middle of the 1st round but that seems less likely.

I think if you got rid of Hoiberg, which I know isn't happening before next summer, and ran the same team back next year with Rondo the solidified PG it would be a 46-50 win team. Then you replace Wade hopefully with another top level guy, hope guys like this year's pick and Portis develop, etc.

I much prefer that to trading him for less than he's worth, which would also indirectly buy this front office you despise more time since they wouldn't be expected to compete now without Butler. If they fuck up the one high pick they would get then you're looking at 3-4 years minimum of 20 win teams. Fuck that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Bulls team was much more effective once they took the Ball out of his hands.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
What would be the lots of mileage on him? I would argue he would actually be a fairly young 29 given his time in the league and lack of deep playoff runs, etc

He also played 4 yrs of college ball. Most players at his level would have 3 more years of NBA wear and tear by now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Butler told Cavs he doesn't want a trade and wants to stay in Chicago.

From David Aldridge.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Butler told Cavs he doesn't want a trade and wants to stay in Chicago.

From David Aldridge.


Technically, Joe Cowley can confirm this because he said Butler was both pushing for a deal to Cleveland and also wanting to stay in Chicago.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Why does it matter what he wants? The team needs to do what they think is best, not what the player wants

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--yet I can't look away."


Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.


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