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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What about Mike Wilhelm? Wasn't he with him at Iowa State

Wasn't he on the Thibs staff? (Cue Brian Hanley.)


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What about Mike Wilhelm? Wasn't he with him at Iowa State

Wasn't he on the Thibs staff? (Cue Brian Hanley.)

Big oops Charlie Henry

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What about Mike Wilhelm? Wasn't he with him at Iowa State

Wasn't he on the Thibs staff? (Cue Brian Hanley.)

Big oops Charlie Henry

Walt, growing up were you a John Mengelt or Bobby Weiss guy?


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What about Mike Wilhelm? Wasn't he with him at Iowa State

Wasn't he on the Thibs staff? (Cue Brian Hanley.)

Big oops Charlie Henry

Walt, growing up were you a John Mengelt or Bobby Weiss guy?

Bobby Weiss stealing the in bounds pass and working the back door with Boerwinkle :D

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I disagree. When Paxson was in charge the Bulls were competing for a championship every year and drafted well.

:lol: No they weren't. They've been a lot closer to competing for a championship ever since the Beaker era began than they were at any point in Paxson's solo tenure. And it's hard to say they drafted well when the most well known draft decision Pax made was trading Aldridge for Thomas.

Paxson's entire reputation is based on simply not being Jerry Krause (or now, Gar Forman) and luckboxing into Rose. Other than that there's nothing to suggest he's anything other than a completely mediocre executive.


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:26 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Nas wrote:
I disagree. When Paxson was in charge the Bulls were competing for a championship every year and drafted well.

:lol: No they weren't. They've been a lot closer to competing for a championship ever since the Beaker era began than they were at any point in Paxson's solo tenure. And it's hard to say they drafted well when the most well known draft decision Pax made was trading Aldridge for Thomas.

Paxson's entire reputation is based on simply not being Jerry Krause (or now, Gar Forman) and luckboxing into Rose. Other than that there's nothing to suggest he's anything other than a completely mediocre executive.


He has his flaws but he has been a better GM than that. He drafted Butler. He picked Rose when people were split 50/50 Rose/Beasley. Noah was considered a reach that worked and so was Deng. He bombed with Aldridge and Wallace. Ben Gordon was a good pick too and so was Hinrich.


He needs to go because I think his time has passed. I don't know if he is interested in the job at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:52 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Nas wrote:
I disagree. When Paxson was in charge the Bulls were competing for a championship every year and drafted well.

:lol: No they weren't. They've been a lot closer to competing for a championship ever since the Beaker era began than they were at any point in Paxson's solo tenure. And it's hard to say they drafted well when the most well known draft decision Pax made was trading Aldridge for Thomas.

Paxson's entire reputation is based on simply not being Jerry Krause (or now, Gar Forman) and luckboxing into Rose. Other than that there's nothing to suggest he's anything other than a completely mediocre executive.


He has his flaws but he has been a better GM than that. He drafted Butler. He picked Rose when people were split 50/50 Rose/Beasley. Noah was considered a reach that worked and so was Deng. He bombed with Aldridge and Wallace. Ben Gordon was a good pick too and so was Hinrich.


He needs to go because I think his time has passed. I don't know if he is interested in the job at this point.

Why is drafting Butler considered a Pax move rather than a Gar move? This is the thing that bugs me. Everything bad from the GarPax era gets blamed on Gar and anything good is attributed to Paxson.

If Paxson really had such a different vision for this team than what Gar and the Reinsdorfs want, then why exactly was he the guy doing most of the talking at the end of last season and why was he the one doing the all-star break press conference solo this season? Wasn't one of the main reasons cited for Gar taking over the GM role in the first was that Paxson didn't want to deal with the media? Why exactly then, if he has such a superior vision for the Bulls, has he been the one addressing the media far more for moves he supposedly disagrees with?


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:57 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Nas wrote:
I disagree. When Paxson was in charge the Bulls were competing for a championship every year and drafted well.

:lol: No they weren't. They've been a lot closer to competing for a championship ever since the Beaker era began than they were at any point in Paxson's solo tenure. And it's hard to say they drafted well when the most well known draft decision Pax made was trading Aldridge for Thomas.

Paxson's entire reputation is based on simply not being Jerry Krause (or now, Gar Forman) and luckboxing into Rose. Other than that there's nothing to suggest he's anything other than a completely mediocre executive.


He has his flaws but he has been a better GM than that. He drafted Butler. He picked Rose when people were split 50/50 Rose/Beasley. Noah was considered a reach that worked and so was Deng. He bombed with Aldridge and Wallace. Ben Gordon was a good pick too and so was Hinrich.


He needs to go because I think his time has passed. I don't know if he is interested in the job at this point.

Why is drafting Butler considered a Pax move rather than a Gar move? This is the thing that bugs me. Everything bad from the GarPax era gets blamed on Gar and anything good is attributed to Paxson.

If Paxson really had such a different vision for this team than what Gar and the Reinsdorfs want, then why exactly was he the guy doing most of the talking at the end of last season and why was he the one doing the all-star break press conference solo this season? Wasn't one of the main reasons cited for Gar taking over the GM role in the first was that Paxson didn't want to deal with the media? Why exactly then, if he has such a superior vision for the Bulls, has he been the one addressing the media far more for moves he supposedly disagrees with?


I think Paxson is making the calls on all of the moves. I think he should go right along with Gar. You don't give Paxson credit for anything. His draft record is more than Rose. Boozer was also a good move. He was the architect behind rebuilding the Bulls. He also hired Thibs which has to be considered a good move.

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This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:59 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Nas wrote:
I disagree. When Paxson was in charge the Bulls were competing for a championship every year and drafted well.

:lol: No they weren't. They've been a lot closer to competing for a championship ever since the Beaker era began than they were at any point in Paxson's solo tenure. And it's hard to say they drafted well when the most well known draft decision Pax made was trading Aldridge for Thomas.

Paxson's entire reputation is based on simply not being Jerry Krause (or now, Gar Forman) and luckboxing into Rose. Other than that there's nothing to suggest he's anything other than a completely mediocre executive.


He has his flaws but he has been a better GM than that. He drafted Butler. He picked Rose when people were split 50/50 Rose/Beasley. Noah was considered a reach that worked and so was Deng. He bombed with Aldridge and Wallace. Ben Gordon was a good pick too and so was Hinrich.


He needs to go because I think his time has passed. I don't know if he is interested in the job at this point.

Why is drafting Butler considered a Pax move rather than a Gar move? This is the thing that bugs me. Everything bad from the GarPax era gets blamed on Gar and anything good is attributed to Paxson.

If Paxson really had such a different vision for this team than what Gar and the Reinsdorfs want, then why exactly was he the guy doing most of the talking at the end of last season and why was he the one doing the all-star break press conference solo this season? Wasn't one of the main reasons cited for Gar taking over the GM role in the first was that Paxson didn't want to deal with the media? Why exactly then, if he has such a superior vision for the Bulls, has he been the one addressing the media far more for moves he supposedly disagrees with?


Everyone says the Butler pick was Paxson's. All of Gar's picks have followed a particular pattern. They're all connected to someone he has a relationship with. That was also the case with Hoiberg.

Paxson didn't miss on many picks. The only time he really missed was when he reached.

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:06 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
. He also hired Thibs which has to be considered a good move.


:lol:

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:19 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Nas wrote:
I disagree. When Paxson was in charge the Bulls were competing for a championship every year and drafted well.

:lol: No they weren't. They've been a lot closer to competing for a championship ever since the Beaker era began than they were at any point in Paxson's solo tenure. And it's hard to say they drafted well when the most well known draft decision Pax made was trading Aldridge for Thomas.

Paxson's entire reputation is based on simply not being Jerry Krause (or now, Gar Forman) and luckboxing into Rose. Other than that there's nothing to suggest he's anything other than a completely mediocre executive.


It's a mixed bag at best. He did right the ship when he first took over. Fostered a culture change by hiring the right coach, hit on his picks, and as a result they went to the playoffs for the first time since Jordan. Totally whiffed on his next coach, another unproven guy like Hoiberg, but corrected that by hiring Thibs. Whatever Thibs built up was of course destroyed by Hoiberg. Here's what I wrote in a different thread:

veganfan21 wrote:

I see four eras of Bulls ball under Pax:

2003-2007: My opinion is this was an overall positive period for the Bulls since they finally recovered from the post Jordan disaster years by becoming a more professional team. Hinrich, Gordon and Deng were good picks. Really bad Ben Wallace signing.

2007-2009: Whatever professionalization achieved under Skiles was almost completely undone by Vinny. Bad choice. Floundering period for the Bulls. Got lucky with Rose. Good pick in Noah. Missed on Tyrus Thomas.

2009-2015: Bulls best period of success since the late 90s.

2015-present: Seemingly directionless. Maybe it is time to go?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY


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 Post subject: Re: Bulls/Celtics- ABC
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What about Mike Wilhelm? Wasn't he with him at Iowa State

Wasn't he on the Thibs staff? (Cue Brian Hanley.)

Big oops Charlie Henry

Walt, growing up were you a John Mengelt or Bobby Weiss guy?

Bobby Weiss stealing the in bounds pass and working the back door with Boerwinkle :D

Bob Weiss looked like an out of work stockbroker playing pickup ball at the Y.

"the ironman"

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